Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

I specifically remember the Remark of Dhanoa sir at the time of Gagan Shakti when he said that Indian air force hit a target 4000 km away from India by indian airforce.
Don't read too much into pompous statements, he is rare one who got the chance to execute it for barely few hundred km, efficacy of it is still doubtful and next day he was telling us if only we had Rafale it would be different. Even in those televised exercises without hostile territory IAF planes regularly miss targets on ground and in air. It's a machine there will be hits and misses, part of game, these statements are for marale boosting, don't take them literally.
 
Don't read too much into pompous statements, he is rare one who got the chance to execute it for barely few hundred km, efficacy of it is still doubtful and next day he was telling us if only we had Rafale it would be different. Even in those televised exercises without hostile territory IAF planes regularly miss targets on ground and in air. It's a machine there will be hits and misses, part of game, these statements are for marale boosting, don't take them literally.

I would always take IAF chief's statement seriously. He gave that statement when moral boosting was not required.
 
350 km mbrl shall be useless particularly in mountain region. Moreover, they will be highly inaccurate even in plane region to that distance. Even if we consider 1% error, they will miss the target by a good margin. MRRL are not made for such a large distance.

Our pruthvi missile with 150 to 350 km range with 500 to 1000 kg payload can be much more useful here as they go very high before strike and hence can be used in mountain unlike 350 km MBRL. This will be a great chance to use those pruthvis which we are going to retire. In absence of pralay, Brahmos will be our trum card. Brahmos shall be like a sniper shot against mbrl f automatic rifles shots of MBRLs.
Just imagine the cyclogical effect on the nation if few hundred mbrls hiting randomly on Delhi. With 350km they can very easily target our capital from tibet.
 
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Thanks to living in lala land of chest thumping Indian kids have become so dense that they think China is not already encroaching our land and best time to stand up to China is when you can't even control situation at home.


No sir I am not, please enlighten the lesser mortals about those massive efforts to bridge the gap. Do tell us how many of those plans are materialized and platforms inducted. Please do make a comparative table of assets available in 2014 and 2020 also in 2008. I am waiting.
Wow! Just can't believe my eyes, are you suggesting we allow China to intrude and annex territories? Like how are we to gain from this? Pray tell me.
And some of the defence upgrades I am aware of! Off the top of my head here are they:
1. Building of blast pens all along the LOC and some along the LAC, work in progress expected to end by 2023!
2. Completion of raising of MSC will take two years more.
3. Induction of Rafales expected to be completed by 2022.
4. Induction of S400 also has the same time frame.
5. Integration of some jets with longer-range missiles are in progress( I-Derby, I guess)
6. Completion of infra along LAC. by a year or two.
7. Agni V is being inducted.
Thank you!
All of these will have a HUGE implication for both a two-front war or a one on one war with China/Pak!
Thanks!
 
Even a common man knows that our Army can fight in 2020 way better than how they fought in 1999 . If he is concluding otherwise despite being a ex-armymen , it could be either bcoz of his modi hatred or his love for rahul gandhi .Nothing much to conclude
This time the enemy is different.
 
Just imagine the cyclogical effect on the nation if few hundred mbrls hiting randomly on Delhi. With 350km they can very easily target our capital from tibet.

True. I was talking about its use in Himalayan battle field. I have written at many places that we need to have atleast 1000 to 2000 missiles which we can target at important chinese cities. Not allocating sufficient fund to defense forces is a big mistake of this government.
 
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True. I was talking about its use in Himalayan battle field. I have written at many places that we need to have atleast 1000 to 2000 missiles which we can target at important chinese cities. Not allocating sufficient fund to defense forces is a big mistake of this government.
We need more than that.
1) Smerch or smerch type in-house rocket artillery in huge numbers. Induct more pinakas.
2) Isakander type theatrical missile, supplemented by prahar missiles.
3) Mounted guns on truck, increased number of k9
4) 400+ m777 or similar howitzers
5) Immediate induction of ATAGs
6) In house excalibur type round
7)Minimum 4 awacs for estern border
8)New tankers
9) 50+ Apaches along with planned LCH
10) Induct mor CH47, c130 and C17 type strategic lifters.
11) 2500+ ranged cruise missiles, there were a report on US & Russian offer on tgeir time tested cruise missiles, grab it as a stopgap measurement till we develop similar system in-house.
12) provide Night vision devices for frontier soldiers.

Yes , the difference is our army chief wont be talking about fighting with sticks and stones like he did in Kargil
Ours are similar to stick & stone while comparing with that of chinese.
 
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350 km mbrl shall be useless particularly in mountain region. Moreover, they will be highly inaccurate even in plane region to that distance. Even if we consider 1% error, they will miss the target by a good margin. MRRL are not made for such a large distance.

Our pruthvi missile with 150 to 350 km range with 500 to 1000 kg payload can be much more useful here as they go very high before strike and hence can be used in mountain unlike 350 km MBRL. This will be a great chance to use those pruthvis which we are going to retire. In absence of pralay, Brahmos will be our trum card. Brahmos shall be like a sniper shot against mbrl f automatic rifles shots of MBRLs.
Good post. We do have counters to PLA stuff and would not like to post here like someone posted about CBU-105. Guys, please hold your horses. Do not not expose what we have and how we can defeat them.
We need more than that.
1) Smerch or smerch type in-house rocket artillery in huge numbers. Induct more pinakas.
2) Isakander type theatrical missile, supplemented by prahar missiles.
3) Mounted guns on truck, increased number of k9
4) 400+ m777 or similar howitzers
5) Immediate induction of ATAGs
6) In house excalibur type round
7)Minimum 4 awacs for estern border
8)New tankers
9) 50+ Apaches along with planned LCH
10) Induct mor CH47, c130 and C17 type strategic lifters.
11) 2500+ ranged cruise missiles, there were a report on US & Russian offer on tgeir time tested cruise missiles, grab it as a stopgap measurement till we develop similar system in-house.
12) provide Night vision devices for frontier soldiers.
We will not need it. IA is ready and prepared since 2015 for chinese momos. Do not fall to propaganda. From EW assets to hardkill options, we are more than prepared to take out their long range rockets. Do you remember 1971 war and rush to Dhaka?
 
Me do not understand all this dhoti shivering, little bit dhoti shivering is good but not this much. Fear is a good thing lol.

Unless one assumes that IA does not or will not take into account deployment of hostile assets and their capabilities to inflict damage while deploying own assets is foolishness

I no general but if I am threatened by artillery and MBRLs I will opt for reverse slope defence , put my troops and equipments ( or move them ) along slope of an elevated terrain such as a hill, ridge, mountain, etc . There is no shortage of such geological features in the said sector and can be taken advantage of as and when the situation demands.

This is just one of the tactics I can think of to negate MBRLs etc . And I am no military . Those in service will have much better ideas .

@Falcon

@vstol Jockey
 
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And some of the defence upgrades I am aware of! Off the top of my head here are they:
1. Building of blast pens all along the LOC and some along the LAC, work in progress expected to end by 2023!
2. Completion of raising of MSC will take two years more.
3. Induction of Rafales expected to be completed by 2022.
4. Induction of S400 also has the same time frame.
5. Integration of some jets with longer-range missiles are in progress( I-Derby, I guess)
6. Completion of infra along LAC. by a year or two.
7. Agni V is being inducted.
Thank you!
All of these will have a HUGE implication for both a two-front war or a one on one war with China/Pak!
Thanks!
None of them is complete/inducted. Take more time, use Google and list (make a comparative list to understand massive efforts). Just list major assets for 3 years, 2008, 2014 and 2019. You will get the answer. There are numerous threads here that details the lethargic and at par performance if not worst than Congress when it comes to decision making so please spare the patriotism of this administration.

If after all that talk and trust from public all you do is lip service, keep defence purchase pending undermining security of nation your talk of Akhand Bharat is as useless as Gareebi Hatao.

HM gave statement in house, good he must, you should not hesitate claiming what's yours and then after 4yrs of haggling you order 36 Rafales while losing more planes what kind of service you doing to nation? By the time those Rafales are inducted they won't serve even for stop gap arrangement.

Talk all you want, milk it politically as much you want couldn't care more as long as you are acting decisively and not focusing entirely on bullshiting public completely.

Wow! Just can't believe my eyes, are you suggesting we allow China to intrude and annex territories?
No, if you are not so eager to brand anything you don't think or want to read as blasphemous you'll get the point.

Both China and Pakistan have our territories and we have never intended to get them back, not even during war time because we are weaker economically, we want to focus on more important things like raising living stranded of public (including army) than to go unprepared into a bloodbath that we may or may not win. That's the reason why we have avoided escalation with Pakistan not what people feed you on SM.

PM Modi brought in a bold change of giving it back to Pakistan overtly but that too have diminishing returns and after last year's raid when he thought he will steam roll Pakistan he was stopped in his tracks, maybe he wanted to avoid the bloodbath. Anyway so we are still following that strategy of hiding your strength, biding your time. If we can do it with much worst neighbour, that kills our soldiers, civilians every other day even when being a smaller one why suddenly we want to needle another neighbour, that may prove to be a capable enemy (though I believe they will lose badly, still).

PM Modi has 3 agendaless summits with Xi. This is keeping whole nation in dark and anyone else but Modi would be branded traitor overnight. What was discussed, what was promised is unknown to country, he is not a king to do this but we all trust he has only good interests of India at heart so nobody objected. This is unprecedented and it is aimed at solving issues quietly without leaking it to public and putting all the work at risk. A very clever though opaque strategy.

This all indicate we were dealing with China the way it should be dealt. But why now out of nowhere start needling them? Maybe some genius like few here gave the idea of negotiating from position of strength by embarrassing China on world stage and show what we are capable of. Well they have called the bluff, you are negotiating from position of weakness now while risking a conflict when your country is engaged domestically at much bigger issues.

It's amazing how nobody, nobody at all here or other places calls for accountability of actions. If there are riots nobody is held accountable, everything is blamed on left, if Pakistan strategy is not working well you are anti national, if China issue crops up from Nehru to everyone questioning the goof ups is overnight branded traitor.

This much boot licking of any leader or idea makes people dumber while the one who took country for ride escapes the responsibility.
 
Just imagine the cyclogical effect on the nation if few hundred mbrls hiting randomly on Delhi. With 350km they can very easily target our capital from tibet.
IF civilian centres like Delhi are being targetted, then one must also consider the psychological impact on the other side. Imagine, Beijing bit hit by a non-nuclear ballistic missile. Who has more to fear? India or China? Indian government has an image of incompetence. Chinese government will find it fatal. They are the people in absolute god like power. Plus there is no other alternative to Chinese government (CPC).

Deterrance is not just nuclear in nature. Its wider.
 
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The problem is tge range limitation of howitzers, m777 heve mere 30-35km range. You cant take down chinese mbrls with howitzers you need use airpowers or prithvi/brahmos type missile, which is adamn costly thing. I will blame IA here for not venturing in to cheep rocket artilleries. DRDO's first artillery saw the battle 21 years ago in kargil and it was a successful. But IA didn't shown any interest in developing it further and now we are in a serious trouble.
Prithvi is not exactly as costly. Plus there are alternatives too. India fields missiles like Prahaar which are tactical ballistic missiles.

BTW, one must understand the role of MBRL (though I admit, my knowledge is bookish and very much incomplete). MBRL is usually used as a counter artillery. That is artillery to take out enemy artillery from distance.

WeiShi rockets which China fields can be a threat to or airbases. But if we deploy our airforce properly, they can be taken out with ease.
 
IF civilian centres like Delhi are being targetted, then one must also consider the psychological impact on the other side. Imagine, Beijing bit hit by a non-nuclear ballistic missile. Who has more to fear? India or China? Indian government has an image of incompetence. Chinese government will find it fatal. They are the people in absolute god like power. Plus there is no other alternative to Chinese government (CPC).

Deterrance is not just nuclear in nature. Its wider.
Are u sure about prahar, afaik IA demand more ranged missile and turned down prahar in current Avatar