LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions
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This doesn't matter for us. Pak army has access to 70% of its youth entering work force every year who have been given jihadi training and no other formal education for all their lives who are ready to be sheep to be killed at border without any recognition.
The cost needs to be such that they cannot hide it it plain sight and causes problems to the punjabistanis in their cities.
Economic, Social and Military all options need to be explored in the order specified.
Salami slicing is the only way. The entire Pakistani aam junta are radicalised and are interested in going to war. All of them believe that they will go to jannat if they die in war fighting the kafir. So you have to kill all 200 million of them to get them to stop which is not feasible. So until we dont start readjustment and taking important peaks this problem never stops. Even after retaking the land we are not stopping attacks but atleast we gain out of losing our soldiers. The policy has to change from a defensive posture to an expansionist posture. This is the only way we retake PoK too..
Capturing few peaks everytime they CFV is the only option. They don't care about lives, but they do care about land
'Cause, as mentioned by @Falcon quite a few times, this type of punishment is the cheapest way for us to get back at Pakistan.
All other methods we can use have costs and repercussions that are more expensive to us than is necessary.
Using the current method, we do a lot of harm to the enemy with negligible casualties on our side.
Well, I disagree. First of all, read this -
[THREAD]
Now, as far as reactions are concerned, it will be a war, yes, another one between India and Pakistan. The loss of lives will be quite high, yes, true. If you see the cumulative casualty that we as a country have suffered thanks to Pakistan from the time of its inception, I believe a full-fledged war that decimates Pakistan's military and it's (proxy) war fighting capabilities is an outcome that is quite welcome for India in the long run.
Reasons -
1) Pakistan forces India to spend huge amount of taxpayers money which without Pakistan can be diverted to much more useful and productive causes.
2) China cannot use Pakistan to harass India. Now we constantly live in fear that if the hostilities start with China, Pak will be forced by China to open another front. We have the option to eliminate that threat before that happens.
3) An exemplary punishment of Pakistan ensures that China stays within its limits, something that is quite essential for maintaining peace and tranquility in the region.
4) Kashmir, like any other part of our country can become peaceful and can healthily contribute to the development of both self and the country. Tourism has been hit very badly because of terrorism and it can be a major area which if developed will improve the overall living standards of the valley.
5) India's international image will change - we are and always have been considered as soft targets. That image needs to be destroyed. Nothing will do it better than demolition of Pakistan and retrieval of PoJ&K.
A country can only go so far if they are scared to death about reactions. We as a country are entitled to certain decisions that ensures safety and stability of our Country.
The present situation with Pakistan and the upcoming sh*tstorm with China is in no way something that we should allow to aggravate.
Allowing Pak to continue in the same way that it is, is actually arming China with a secondary weapon to be used against India. Hope our political class sees this. The lack of spine of our politicians is the only thing that hurt our country.
Okay. That's actually fine. I thought you wanted a large scale operation beyond the LoC. Like taking back PoK.
But yes, what @Falcon said there is merely an extension of what we are already doing and won't make things more expensive to the extent I assumed based on the scale you wanted.
This is the extreme end of the spectrum I was talking about.
Look, if we go to war, it cannot be half-as*ed. It has to be full spectrum, all-out war. The alternative is we will fight a very short war, Pakistan will acquiesce to some of our demands for a few years, rebuild and repeat their antics again. So the only alternative is an all-out war that removes Pakistan from the world map. We can't afford a repeat of the 1948, 1965 and 1999 wars. We are in an era in which a war with another country must only be fought once, or must not be fought at all 'cause the cycle will only repeat.
Exactly my point, having been part of so many wars with Pakistan, our leaders must understand the value of erasing Pakistan's military and thereby breaking it's backbone. I am not in favour of any half a*sed offensive against Pak as well. A Pakistan with negligible military might will ensure that our west is secured. As far as rebuilding Pak militarily is concerned, that can be stopped in numerous ways. The only plausible way for it to happen is China providing Pak with stuff for free and for a very long time. I really doubt China will drain that much resource. Also, the amount of time it will take for that to happen, we, as a country will be in a far far superior place compared to what we are today. Yes, the leadership must acknowledge it. Without that and with current internal corruption, vested interests there is not a semblance of a chance for this sort of a thing to happen.
Our PM stating that "wars are a thing of past" is a clear indication of our intentions. All those speeches before the election and also about "Aksai Chin" in the parliament was just for the sake of saying it, none of it were ever meant!
Dismantle their military, everything will fall in line.
This was something that could have been done in the 80s. The point of Brasstacks. Now, it's gonna be far more expensive than worth affording, which was the point of what I said in the beginning, that our current course is the least expensive course, which is why status quo is going to continue for a long time.
Yeah, that is the govt's intention. But if wars are a thing of the past, then proxy wars are a thing of the present and the govt is not willing to do that either. Regardless, I hope that view changes as we get richer.
Rather what will happen is China will attack us, and Pak will help them. At the very least, I hope the govt prepares the military to handle that much.
The problem is when China attacks us, Pakistan will be an additional problem, another whole front for India to take care of. That's the worth of taking out Pak early. I don't understand why every one is so keen on passing it off like the cost of taking out Pak now is too high. What happens when Pak + China attack, how expensive will that be?
I have actually thought of it for quite sometime. The only thing uniting the Pakistanis is the army a brutal thrashing and embarrassment by the IA will break all illusions and will start it's disintegration.That's what we have to do. The problem is an expensive campaign won't give us as much returns. As they will still be able to claim some kind of faux victory like they have done for the last 70 years. A continuous salami slicing is the only way since the Pakistanis can't deny lost land. They may lose PoK and still not disintegrate. Until we don't march inside Pindi and make bajwa kiss IA's boots this doesn't end...
You will have take Turkish tech and jihadis into account too. Though they will pose a minor menace at best..
Don't cross the border on foot, it's expensive. Just go after the PAF in a miniature airwar campaign. Once the PAF is neutralized they won't have many options left. It will take a while for them to rebuild their airforce and it will be costly purging their economy even further. PA will throw PAF high command under the bus to save themselves from their avaam creating a divide between services blaming each other losing the grip on the politico, China won't be able to force Pakistan on any adventure until their airforce is built up again as it would be a suicide to go to war without an effective air cover and the army knows it. They will get back with few terror attacks but it will drown them even further as IAF would have a free hand to do more airstrikes now that the threat of paf is out of the equation.
So all in all let's wait till we have s400s inducted before going gaga over POK Banega Hindustan.
No dumb *censored* ever won a war by going out and dying for the country. He won it by sending some other *censored* to die for his country - Patton
The some other dumb *censored* should be the PAF.
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And you think PAF will fight the IAF? Their whole strategy is to stay inside friendly airspace and bait IAF fighters. That's what they have done since Kargil. Even on 27th Feb all of there fighters stayed inside Pakistani airspace and only the f16's ingressed less than 5 km inside. PAF is just for show. They won't actually do any fighting for the most part until the situation gets desperate. PAF won't fight when you are prepared and ready they will tuck their tail and run. The only cost effective way is salami slicing with continuous movements of area denial assets forward with the area gained. That's the cheapest and most cost effective way to end this drama. Any grand campaign is more likely to fail and will only make the Chinese poke us. More akhnoor daggers can be created which can give us direct los for attacking. Once the PAF is interested in bombing take their fighters out. If we declare war we will lose the element of surprise and internationalise the issue which will only lead to more de-escalation. The PAF won't get interested until we don't introduce the IAF. It's a tic for tac fighting style unlike the Chinese...
Once IAF goes all out they don't have many places to stay hidden. They have to take off eventually. Once their major assets, their 9 AWACS are out of the game the fighters are good as our hawks sonly with a small radars. They can hide fighters, not the AWACS and their ground air defenses are so so, to begin with. Even last year they couldn't get a SU with EW even after overwhelming them with 20 of theirs. We will definitely lose a few, IAF is obviously prepared for it even after 26/11 but they will have their AIrforce wiped out. Sargodha was bombed in the previous wars too, now just imagine a pair of Su's carrying 20 Saaws wiping out a base with their Awacs in a single strike. I believe there was a reason IAF didn't use saaw in balakot and went for off the shelf foreign ammunition.
To my knowledge of people, I have discussed such stuff say the remnants of PAF won't last the 5th day in an open conflict, they will be hunted down no matter which highway bridge they hid under.
I definitely agree with taking out Pakistan before China becomes the main threat. But I don't think our leadership is interested in a pyrrhic victory, if that's their current line of thinking. Another main goal is to wait for Pakistan to implode and help it along rather than unify them.
At the very least we need to take back PoK to remove the physical link between Pak and China. It's unlikely for things to go nuclear if PoK is taken out, and we provide assurance that the target is only PoK and not Pakjab. That's currently what the military is hinting at.
Or it's possible that the wheels for one or the other have already been set in motion and we have no clue about it. We have been getting more and more aggressive in dealing with Pakistan, and we have now started being diplomatically aggressive with China as well. I suppose we will know more if we give it time.