Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
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You seem to think that the French should be down on expectations because of Switzerland and Finland, but 2021 was the best year for Rafale export sales: 24 to Greece, 12 to Croatia, 30 to Egypt and 80 to the UAE for a total of 146, and when I congratulated Dassault's CEO, Eric Trappier, who was my trainee when I was at Dassault, he told me he hoped for more years like this. And I don't see how this is possible without an order from India, so he didn't tell me a signature in 2022 or any other date, he is not master of time, but the UAE example shows that Dassault is capable of waiting for a long time.
"الشروط الفنية" تعلق صفقة الإمارات لشراء الـ"إف-35" الأمريكية
قال مسؤول إماراتي إن بلاده جمدت في الوقت الراهن، لأسباب فنية، المناقشات بشأن صفقة شراء مقاتلات إف-35 الأمريكية.
al-ain.com
@WHOHE : what operating restrictions could UAE be refering to ? How US could maintain such restriction ?
Because America would never sell to both sides! India and Pakistan, Greece and Turkey, Spain and Morocco, Israel and Arab states, Japan and South Korea...
Nothing is unexpected in international relations, only yet to see and know at its best.
Some very specific instances their. Neither India nor Pakistan has historically been a true ally. Greece and Turkey are/were both NATO. Not all Arab states have been quite so opposed to Israel in many decades. Japan and South Korean woes pretty much ended after WWII.
You spelt 'realist' wrong. If you manage to get an F-15E shot down by a ground-launched AAM that some numpties rigged because you continued flying in level flight, how would you describe it? They literally flew it like a kite. I stand vindicated.
I guess I overlooked the Israelis though.
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I just hope for LM that this plane will some day be really FOC. If not it will be a world wide scandal.
Sold this year to Greece, Croatia, Egypt, UAE. Not so bad for a 6 time smaller country.
Greece is buying F-35.
Croatia hasn't been offered F-35.
Egypt has not been offered F-35.
UAE wants F-35 but US has conditions they haven't met yet.
French plane does well where the F-35 isn't offered but when it actually has to compete with the F-35 like in Swissland und
Finland then the truth comes out how inferior and expensive your plane really is.
Greece wanted the F-35, but since it received the first Rafales it wants F-35 less and less, in fact it has already ordered more Rafale.
Croatia is not interested in the F-35, it is too expensive.
Abdel Fattah Al-Sissi's Egypt bought Rafales in 2015 to protest against Barack Obama's abandonment of Egyptian President Mubarak at the time of the "Arab Spring". Since then they have been very happy with them and have bought more.
Abu Dhabi's decision to increase its initial request for 60 fighter jets to 80 is a sign of preference over the Americans, as the French order is greater in number than the 50 F-35s that the US is currently negotiating with the Emiratis.
When a country is in a troubled area where it risks going to war, it prefers the Rafale to the F-35.
Is telling yourself that help your ego sleep at night? Lol.
Hasn't been offered. And only in your old frog mind is the F-35 expensive the Finns and Swiss say otherwise.
F-35 was never offered and we don't even sell them aim-120s for their F-16s,
UAE wants F-35s which is why they made peace with Israel but under Biden UAE must meet certain conditions to buy F-35.
See how simple and easy that was?
I think what's critical for nations with tiny air forces & limited resources which do face some degree of threat like Finland or UAE ( I'm not including Croatia here for I don't foresee Croatia facing a threat from anybody , Greece faces a threat from a peer not a superpower , Ditto for Taiwan but all these belong to opposite sides of a spectrum hence not included but Finland is for they do face a threat from Russia albeit a low key one as of now ) is the role the F-35 is likely to play .
You can't have it performing as both the tip of the spear as well the rest of the spear which seems to be what Finland is trying to do here .
Given the prohibitive OPEX costs of the F-22 particularly it's maintenance , I'd take figures being doled out for the F-35 with a pinch of salt which IMO sort of highlights the dilemma that nations like Finland face .
In the long run this dilemma is something that other nations too would face given that stealth by its very nature is a tangible which comes at a premium & proportional trade off .
You can't mainstream it by mass production & treat these FA as you would the other 3G / 3.5G / 4 G / 4.5 G etc in your stable. I think this philosophy on which the entire JSF program was premised is in itself flawed especially after their experience with stealth over a period of 3-4 decades .
It's either that or some evil genius came out with a dazzling marketing gimmick which enthralled everyone from Capitol Hill downwards to the Pentagon & further downstream .
In any case time would answer this question better . Right now all we have are opinions.
Haven't you realized yet that it's over, that the UAE doesn't want your shitty F-35 anymore?
Haven't you realized yet that it's over, that the UAE doesn't want your shitty F-35 anymore?
You live in a land of delusion.
UAE defence ministry says French warplanes not a substitute for U.S. jets
The United Arab Emirates defence ministry said its purchase of French Rafale fighter jets would complement its planned deal to buy American F-35 warplanes, which has slowed due to Washington's concerns over Abu Dhabi's relationship with China.
If they want the F-35 plus other high end weapon systems they are going to have to do what Biden says or they will be stuck with inferior 4th gen Rafails and will likely lose many of them in a conflict with Iran.
And always remember your plane came in third behind F-18E in Swiss competition and it didn't even make the next round in Finland competition.
So what happened, exactly?And you live in the past:
December 5, 2021
UAE defence ministry says French warplanes not a substitute for U.S. jets
December 14, 2021
UAE told the U.S. it will suspend talks on F-35 jets -Emirati official
Situations change quickly these days
Serbia has wanted to take Croatian territory since 1844 at the very least, and still wants to do so. But you are correct in a sense: military threat right now is very low, main threat comes from our own politicians and EU's progressive ideology. Still, fact remains that our longest land border is with Bosnia, and that thing hasn't managed to function properly since 1918... meaning that the risk of it falling apart and starting another war, while not very high, is still very real.
