Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[Rajput Lion]

I wouldn't underestimate it's EA , ECMs , ECCMs , etc .

Everything is cutting edge. But without stealth it can't fight and survive against super-agile 4.5 gen fighters like MKI and Rafale, like its brother F-22 can.

Even with VLO stealth in mind, Rafale under a well trained air force can still go toe to toe with the F-35. MKI would also reach that status post MLU.

Finally. Someone somewhere is thinking ahead.

Supposedly the AN/APG-85 would be a GaN based super powerful radar with electronic attack function.

 

[Innominate]

Canada strikes C$19 bln deal for Lockheed's F-35 fighter jets​

OTTAWA, Jan 9 (Reuters) - Canada finalized a deal to buy 88 F-35 fighter jets from U.S. defense company Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) on Monday in a C$19 billion ($14.2 billion) project to replace its aging fleet of fighter aircraft.

Canada expects the first F-35s to be delivered in 2026 and for the fleet to be fully operational between 2032 and 2034, Defense Minister Anita Anand told a news conference.

The F-35 "is the most advanced fighter on the market and it is the right aircraft for our country," Anand told reporters, adding the purchase and maintenance could contribute over C$425 million annually to the Canadian economy and close to 3,300 jobs annually. Anand said it was the largest investment in the Royal Canadian Air Force in 30 years.

Canada strikes C$19 bln deal for Lockheed's F-35 fighter jets

Canada finalized a deal to buy 88 F-35 fighter jets from U.S. defense company Lockheed Martin Corp on Monday in a C$19 billion ($14.2 billion) project to replace its aging fleet of fighter aircraft.

www.reuters.com

 

[Hydra]

True, but remove its stealth and it would be wiped out by MKI/Rafale easily. F-35's VLO is its biggest trump card.

Its as foolish & stupid like you saying remove engine from a car, it will be out run by a bicycle. But again its you.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Canada strikes C$19 bln deal for Lockheed's F-35 fighter jets​

OTTAWA, Jan 9 (Reuters) - Canada finalized a deal to buy 88 F-35 fighter jets from U.S. defense company Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) on Monday in a C$19 billion ($14.2 billion) project to replace its aging fleet of fighter aircraft.

Canada expects the first F-35s to be delivered in 2026 and for the fleet to be fully operational between 2032 and 2034, Defense Minister Anita Anand told a news conference.

The F-35 "is the most advanced fighter on the market and it is the right aircraft for our country," Anand told reporters, adding the purchase and maintenance could contribute over C$425 million annually to the Canadian economy and close to 3,300 jobs annually. Anand said it was the largest investment in the Royal Canadian Air Force in 30 years.

Canada strikes C$19 bln deal for Lockheed's F-35 fighter jets

Canada finalized a deal to buy 88 F-35 fighter jets from U.S. defense company Lockheed Martin Corp on Monday in a C$19 billion ($14.2 billion) project to replace its aging fleet of fighter aircraft.

www.reuters.com

Was Canada ever considering any other Fighter Aircrafts ? I mean we've read reports they were considering SAAB Gripen & Dassault Rafales just to seem fair & even handed but whoever thought they would be so except you & the Canadians perhaps ?!

This bit of news would be so if Canada had chosen either of the other contenders . I sincerely wonder if the US itself would be able to run such a con job with any future FA what to speak of any other country doing so on the same scale .

 

[BMD]

Comedy hour.

The real deal.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Its as foolish & stupid like you saying remove engine from a car, it will be out run by a bicycle. But again its you.

Lol, all stealth aircrafts have a "beast mode" where they carry their weapons on outer hard points. That mode is NOT very stealthy.

But then to whom am I responding

Comedy hour.
View attachment 25927

The real deal.
View attachment 25926

Production Su-57 has much better finishing than before. Plus, make your comparison once Type-30 engines come online. And they are coming very soon.

 

[Hydra]

Lol, all stealth aircrafts have a "beast mode" where they carry their weapons on outer hard points. That mode is NOT very stealthy.

But then to whom am I responding

Lol, and when they gonna carry such load?after achieving air dominance. Means enemy os not in a postion give any meaning full resistance.
Again, its you.

Production Su-57 has much better finishing than before. Plus, make your comparison once Type-30 engines come online. And they are coming very soon.

Provide him a time travel machine so that he can go to future & take picture for you.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Lol, and when they gonna carry such load?after achieving air dominance. Means enemy os not in a postion give any meaning full resistance.
Again, its you.

Stealth isn't the be-all, end-all of air combat. Yes, it does come with its advantages, but then you need agility and maneuverability too.

You are not going to shoot any peer level enemy from 100kms away. That's not possible. Fight would be much closer and faster. That's where planes like Rafale and MKI(post MLU) would counter F-35. While planes like Su-57M would flat-out dominate it.

F-35 if caught, just can't run or turn. It's a strike fighter not an ASF.

 

[Bon Plan]

True, but remove its stealth and it would be wiped out by MKI/Rafale easily. F-35's VLO is its biggest trump card.

It's a quality that will vanished with low band radars. More and more spread in the army. All the recent chinese destroyers are fitted with...

 

[Rajput Lion]

It's a quality that will vanished with low band radars. More and more spread in the army. All the recent chinese destroyers are fitted with...

Low band radars may detect stealth planes, but tracking and shooting them is a whole different problem.

Supposedly NGAD is being designed as to defeat even low-band radars.

Against a fight with a plane like F-35, Rafale's OSF is going to be its biggest weapon. EOTS is mounted below chin of F-35, perfect for strike missions whilst Rafale's OSF is in perfect place for air combat.

Stealth definitely is an advantage, that's why every nation is pursuing stealth fighters. But it isn't be all end all of air combat.

 

[Hydra]

Stealth isn't the be-all, end-all of air combat. Yes, it does come with its advantages.

This not what you conveyed in your post #4215.

You are not going to shoot any peer level enemy from 100kms away. That's not possible. Fight would be much closer and faster. That's where planes like Rafale and MKI(post MLU) would counter F-35. While planes like Su-57M would flat-out dominate it.

No, but definitely 60-80 range, even with current missiles like Meteor, MKI will not see f35 even at 40km radar range. And try to be in present. If you are bringing the su47,i can bring ngad, tempest etc.

F-35 if caught, just can't run or turn. It's a strike fighter not an ASF.

You said it, "if".F35 is having such situational awareness that no MKI will evade detection.

Yeas it is not an ASF, neither Rafale. But Rafale can eat MKI alive.

 

[Rajput Lion]

This not what you conveyed in your post #4215.

Kindly improve your comprehension before jumping to a conclusion. My opinion re this topic is consistent with my every post.

Only special thing about F-35 is stealth. Remove that and it sucks. Compare it with F-22 and Su-57, both have stealth plus great kinematics.

Now, you may say that F-35 isn't an ASF but F-16 isn't either. And F-16 would run circles around F-35 in a dogfight. Also, there are many nations who're buying F-35s as their primary air superiority fighter. So comparison with other ASF is bound to happen. And it just sucks as an ASF, period.

No, but definitely 60-80 range, even with current missiles like Meteor, MKI will not see f35 even at 40km radar range. And try to be in present. If you are bringing the su47,i can bring ngad, tempest etc.

I never said that current MKI can take on F-35. Once again check your comprehension. I was talking about Rafale and MKI MLU.

You said it, "if".F35 is having such situational awareness that no MKI will evade detection.

Wait for MKI MLU. You shall have your answers.

Yeas it is not an ASF, neither Rafale. But Rafale can eat MKI alive.

Are you on weeds? There is no plane designed till date that can touch MKI in a dogfight with guns or IR missiles. In fact with HMS Sura and R-73 combo, it's literally invincible. It would hump Rafale or any other plane in WVR.

BVR? Yes, Rafale is superior to MKI currently. But wait for MKI MLU. With powerful AESA radar and QWIP based IRST along with next gen EW, MKI shall regain(retain) its edge again.

 

[Hydra]

Kindly improve your comprehension before jumping to a conclusion. My opinion re this topic is consistent with my every post.

Only special thing about F-35 is stealth. Remove that and it sucks. Compare it with F-22 and Su-57, both have stealth plus great kinematics.

Now, you may say that F-35 isn't an ASF but F-16 isn't either. And F-16 would run circles around F-35 in a dogfight. Also, there are many nations who're buying F-35s as their primary air superiority fighter. So comparison with other ASF is bound to happen. And it just sucks as an ASF, period.

I never said that current MKI can take on F-35. Once again check your comprehension. I was talking about Rafale and MKI MLU.

Wait for MKI MLU. You shall have your answers.

Stealth is one of the aspect of F35,its EW, situational awareness more than enough to take down MKI now, and future too. Because its getting bare minimum upgrade as MLU if you read inbetween thines of press reports.

If you remove stealth from SU47,it will be a dead cockroach.

Are you on weeds? There is no plane designed till date that can touch MKI in a dogfight with guns or IR missiles. In fact with HMS Sura and R-73 combo, it's literally invincible. It would hump Rafale or any other plane in WVR.

BVR? Yes, Rafale is superior to MKI currently. But wait for MKI MLU. With powerful AESA radar and QWIP based IRST along with next gen EW, MKI shall regain(retain) its edge again.

Are you? Or must be a die hard fan of movies like Rambo. This is 21 century air warfare, if you have advantage only on gun dog fight, its better not get airborne with that. And no, MKI will not get a powerful AESA if you are not equipping its *censored* with pair of AL41, rather it will be a mediocre AESA for the aircraft with size of a MKI. You cannot beat Rafale in BVR even with MLU MKI if you are not stuffing its belly with an EW suit superior to spectra, and i am not believing anyone if they said, the planned EW of MLU is superior to spectra. We simply lacks that knowhow.
Some of the members even dismissed the idea of EX beating Rafale, if EX cannot beat Rafale the MKI mlu too cannot.
Same the case in wvr, the crazy cobra &2D tvc will not enough for Rafale.
@Picdelamirand-oil this gentleman is saying Rafale cannot beat MKI in wvr. Is that so?

 

[Rajput Lion]

Stealth is one of the aspect of F35,its EW, situational awareness more than enough to take down MKI now, and future too. Because its getting bare minimum upgrade as MLU if you read inbetween thines of press reports.

If you remove stealth from SU47,it will be a dead cockroach.

Are you? Or must be a die hard fan of movies like Rambo. This is 21 century air warfare, if you have advantage only on gun dog fight, its better not get airborne with that. And no, MKI will not get a powerful AESA if you are not equipping its *censored* with pair of AL41, rather it will be a mediocre AESA for the aircraft with size of a MKI. You cannot beat Rafale in BVR even with MLU MKI if you are not stuffing its belly with an EW suit superior to spectra, and i am not believing anyone if they said, the planned EW of MLU is superior to spectra. We simply lacks that knowhow.
Some of the members even dismissed the idea of EX beating Rafale, if EX cannot beat Rafale the MKI mlu too cannot.
Same the case in wvr, the crazy cobra &2D tvc will not enough for Rafale.
@Picdelamirand-oil this gentleman is saying Rafale cannot beat MKI in wvr. Is that so?

Su-47? Berkut?? Lol.

Coming to the topic in hand, well BVR combat isn't just about one platform vs another platform. That sort of approach is futile and won't lead you anywhere. It's whole gambit of tactics and assets that do the job "together". MKI flown by IAF is just a beast of another level as is Rafale.

Anyways, why not ask our own @vstol Jockey to corroborate the veracity of what I previously wrote.

 

[Hydra]

Su-47? Berkut?? Lol.

Coming to the topic in hand, well BVR combat isn't just about one platform vs another platform. That sort of approach is futile and won't lead you anywhere. It's whole gambit of tactics and assets that do the job "together". MKI flown by IAF is just a beast of another level as is Rafale.

Anyways, why not ask our own @vstol Jockey to corroborate the veracity of what I previously wrote.

Its a typo error man, you know it.

And dont give advertisement for MKI, by siding with IAF. Our pilots aren't from heaven to make stone to a silver bullets. They are best, so as our enemy pilots too. So lets set aside human factor from here.

 

[Innominate]

Stealth isn't the be-all, end-all of air combat. Yes, it does come with its advantages,

Lol. Stealth is the be all you dope which is why all 1st world nations/mega air forces are buying them or making their own.

but then you need agility and maneuverability too.

Which the F-35 has but isn't as important as SA, EW and EODAS which gives the F-35 the ability to kill any fighter without turning. F-35 is as agile as the F-18 and F-16 and there's plenty of videos of F-18's gunning SU-30's in dogfight exercises.

You are not going to shoot any peer level enemy from 100kms away. That's not possible. Fight would be much closer and faster.

Lol. What are you some Indian prophet that knows how air to air engagements will take place? Puh-leeze! That's your wish how air to air engagements should be to justify India not having any stealth fighters and flying outdated 4th gen fighters.

That's where planes like Rafale and MKI(post MLU) would counter F-35. While planes like Su-57M would flat-out dominate it.

Rafale and Flankers will never know what killed them if they ever take on F-35's. Not even French Rafale pilots are this stupid they know they don't stand a chance against the F-35 in real combat.

F-35 if caught, just can't run or turn. It's a strike fighter not an ASF.

Lol. How in your nutty world is an F-35 going to get caught?

You're one delusional kid that likes to make up scenarios that puts 4th gen fighters in some weird advantaged that are far from reality.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Lol. Stealth is the be all you dope which is why all 1st world nations/mega air forces are buying them or making their own.


Which the F-35 has but isn't as important as SA, EW and EODAS which gives the F-35 the ability to kill any fighter without turning. F-35 is as agile as the F-18 and F-16 and there's plenty of videos of F-18's gunning SU-30's in dogfight exercises.


Lol. What are you some Indian prophet that knows how air to air engagements will take place? Puh-leeze! That's your wish how air to air engagements should be to justify India not having any stealth fighters and flying outdated 4th gen fighters.


Rafale and Flankers will never know what killed them if they ever take on F-35's. Not even French Rafale pilots are this stupid they know they don't stand a chance against the F-35 in real combat.

Lol. How in your nutty world is an F-35 going to get caught?

You're one delusional kid that likes to make up scenarios that puts 4th gen fighters in some weird advantaged that are far from reality.

Yet for some unfathomable reason as of now the F-35 puts in an hour of flight & spends close to a week or more "recuperating " in the base . In the days of yore it used to be known as rest & recreation.

Because the F-35 still has so many unresolved issues that training hours aren't prescribed. They aren't prescribed for another reason - cost per flight hour is still < 35,000 USD . Hence LM recommends extensive use of the simulators for training .

Then of course there's the minor matter of both the F-35 & F-22 being tested for external pylons . Yup , the F-35 plane is all they say it is & more . All it has to do is fly more consistently minus all the issues dogging it today , to live up to that reputation. When do you suppose it'd happen sweetie ? Before or after the FOC i.e before or after 2030 ?

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Lol. Stealth is the be all you dope which is why all 1st world nations/mega air forces are buying them or making their own.


Which the F-35 has but isn't as important as SA, EW and EODAS which gives the F-35 the ability to kill any fighter without turning. F-35 is as agile as the F-18 and F-16 and there's plenty of videos of F-18's gunning SU-30's in dogfight exercises.


Lol. What are you some Indian prophet that knows how air to air engagements will take place? Puh-leeze! That's your wish how air to air engagements should be to justify India not having any stealth fighters and flying outdated 4th gen fighters.


Rafale and Flankers will never know what killed them if they ever take on F-35's. Not even French Rafale pilots are this stupid they know they don't stand a chance against the F-35 in real combat.

Lol. How in your nutty world is an F-35 going to get caught?

You're one delusional kid that likes to make up scenarios that puts 4th gen fighters in some weird advantaged that are far from reality.

The Americans are extraordinary, they gargle with the passive stealth of the F-22 and F-35 and denigrate the active stealth of the Rafale.
They started by saying that active stealth did not exist, but everyone now knows that they and the British are trying to develop this type of stealth.

It's that active stealth is far superior to passive stealth:

1. You can add it to an aircraft that is not stealthy while the F-35 fan boys love to use the argument that you can never add stealth to a 4th generation aircraft.
2. Passive stealth is only effective in one direction, that of the radar transmitter. In fact, the principle consists of sending 80% of the radar's energy in a direction other than that of the transmitter and when this is not possible, for example if the stealth and aerodynamic constraints are antagonistic, materials are added to absorb the radar signal.
3. For active stealth you can choose in which direction you want to cancel the radar return, and this can be in several directions.

The future of combat between two air forces will be a network against another network, it is called net centric warfare, and in this context the radar will become multistatic, that is to say that the radar of a plane B will be able to detect a plane using the radar signal emitted by a plane A.

And there the transmitter and the receiver are no longer in the same place and passive stealth no longer works. But active stealth works for all the aircraft detected if you decide to cancel the return signal in their direction. And since passive stealth no longer works, the friendly network detects all enemy aircraft.

So in the future it's more like the F-35 won't even know where the hit that killed it came from.

 

[randomradio]

Lol. Stealth is the be all you dope which is why all 1st world nations/mega air forces are buying them or making their own.

The F-35 isn't stealthy anymore. It's just an advanced low end jet in need of a new engine. And it definitely needs a Rafale-esque upgrade with active stealth if it wants to be called stealthy in the future. And this could happen by 2030 or so.

World air forces are buying American, not the F-35. It's just politics.

 

[Innominate]

The F-35 isn't stealthy anymore. It's just an advanced low end jet in need of a new engine. And it definitely needs a Rafale-esque upgrade with active stealth if it wants to be called stealthy in the future. And this could happen by 2030 or so.

World air forces are buying American, not the F-35. It's just politics.

You're off your meds again.