Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
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Like I told him, the US didn't want to sell India the F-35 because they're too friendly with Russia.
Rafale deal controversy - Wikipedia
How Modi’s defence deal left India lagging China, Pakistan
Must be loads and loads of rigged tenders for the F-35 then.
Your Rafale purchase reminds me of a kid watching their dad purchase a fairly average family hatchback. The knowledgeable know that the car is mediocre at best but, to the child, it is the greatest car in the world.And it wasn't just Belgium. Canada, Norway, Netherlands etc. The other bids in Asia it never entered. So far the only interest has been from the Middle East and India, where the F-35 is not on offer for security reasons.
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Now the Swiss deal may see Rafale and F-35A competing. This will be interesting.
Swiss get five offers to replace ageing jet fighter fleet
If we are lucky and it happens, this may be the first fair competition between the two jets.
Swiss get five offers to replace ageing jet fighter fleet
If we are lucky and it happens, this may be the first fair competition between the two jets.
Gripen will win because it's all they can afford, plus they have size considerations for mountain hangars. In fact the mountain hangar size and cost constraints make it the ultimate in rigged competitions. It's like McLaren competing with Ford for my next car. I can only afford one of them, so the other is wasting its time.
Yes, that's why all European and North American countries have turned it down.
Oh yes, very transparent, arbitrary numbers without describing how they were tested.
Yes, that's why all European and North American countries have turned it down.
French stuff can be expensive for some, too sophisticated for others. For most, France's independent policy making is not very inviting. So they lose out on politics.
If you recall, both the Swiss and Brazilian air forces preferred Rafale over Gripen. But financial considerations took primary importance their decision. Hence, more sophisticated but too expensive.
Naturally, they would have made an apples to apples comparison for their particular requirements, which is good enough.
Sure. It was just politics, nothing to do with the F-35 actually being a stealth aircraft, with vastly more advanced sensor fusion, sensors and HMCS.
The Rafale is more expensive than the F-35 and less sophisticated too though, hence why nobody wants it when given a choice.
Not if the apples are bad.
If any country selects the Rafale for actual purchase over an F-35, or the F-35 drops out of a competition with the Rafale in, then I'll admit I'm wrong, until then you are wrong. Deal?
The point I'm making is whether the apples are truly bad or not, we will know to a significant extent with this new tender.
That's not how it works though. My contention is simple. Wait till the evidence becomes available in a proper tender which pits the two jets on equal footing. The Swiss tender would be the first one.
Fighter jets pulling out of tenders can be for umpteen number of reasons. If you notice, even Saab and Boeing pulled out of the Belgian tender, not just Dassault. Dassault pulled out of Canada because they wouldn't be able to meet intelligence sharing and interoperability conditions, which actually have little to do with the capability of the aircraft itself. In neither case were the assumed advantages of stealth and sensor fusion relevant.
Just to show you that I'm being fair in my opinion, I am all in for the IN cancelling the MRCBF in favour of F-35Bs that can be operated from our 2 carriers and also 4 LHDs, which is not possible with the Rafale. And if it works out, the MSA and F-35 will be excellent complements to each other in such a situation since even the MSA can operate from LHDs.
We'll only know if Switzerland actually pick the Rafale, otherwise the results are irrelevant if they're not willing to put their money where their mouth is. Switzerland is too politically close to France.
That is how it works though. Countries don't spend billions buying a jet they think is worse however much you try and convince yourself that the opposite is true. Always the excuses flow for Dassault but somehow the F-35 never needs such excuses.
The F-35 is not available to India, so you'll have to ask for a VTOL Rafale.
Your line of argument is such that if the Swiss choose Gripen instead of F-35 or Rafale, then Gripen is superior to the other two. Common sense's gone out for a spin?
There are no excuses for Dassault. It's all relevant reasons.
The F-35 is available to India. All we need to do is ask for it.