Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

randomradio said:
Your line of argument is such that if the Swiss choose Gripen instead of F-35 or Rafale, then Gripen is superior to the other two. Common sense's gone out for a spin?



There are no excuses for Dassault. It's all relevant reasons.



The F-35 is available to India. All we need to do is ask for it.
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No, as I've said, Gripen is the only one they can afford, the other bidders are wasting their time/money. But if a country isn't actually prepared to buy a jet, then how they rate it is irrelevant.

Reasons that just keep leading to the F-35 being selected. Lockheed and BAE don't seem to need such reasons. The Rafale can't even match the Typhoon on sales, it's really pretty average even as a non-5th gen aircraft, despite the best attempts of fanboys.

If it was available, they'd have put in a bid.
 
BMD said:
No, as I've said, Gripen is the only one they can afford, the other bidders are wasting their time/money. But if a country isn't actually prepared to buy a jet, then how they rate it is irrelevant.
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Typhoon didn't win the MMRCA either. But we know it was good enough to get shortlisted. The same way.
 
randomradio said:
Typhoon didn't win the MMRCA either. But we know it was good enough to get shortlisted. The same way.
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So what? Sales are all that count. Ratings provided by countries who know next to nothing about air warfare are especially irrelevant. It's like asking a hamster their opinion on black hole complementarity vs quantum tunnelling.
 
BMD said:
So what? Sales are all that count. Ratings provided by countries who know next to nothing about air warfare are especially irrelevant. It's like asking a hamster their opinion on black hole complementarity vs quantum tunnelling.
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Ratings provided by air forces is how sales happen in the first place.

The sales themselves are irrelevant.

Take Korea, the Rafale beat all its competitors in tech evaluations and still lost due to political compulsions. The Rafale's loss had no relevance to capability. The same with Brazil and Switzerland, where Rafale beat all competitors in tech specs.

If the Swiss say the Rafale is better than the F-35 for their needs, it will end the debate.
 
randomradio said:
Ratings provided by air forces is how sales happen in the first place.

The sales themselves are irrelevant.

Take Korea, the Rafale beat all its competitors in tech evaluations and still lost due to political compulsions. The Rafale's loss had no relevance to capability. The same with Brazil and Switzerland, where Rafale beat all competitors in tech specs.

If the Swiss say the Rafale is better than the F-35 for their needs, it will end the debate.
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That must be why the F-35 has sold more to developed air forces then.

In Korea it was up against the F-15K. The F-15 won because they already had F-15s and made a lot of the parts. Then they decided to buy F-35s simply because it's the best hands down, no comparison needed. It's really like F-22 vs F-15C, it's a simple choice.

Switzerland have no genuine defence needs. They are a small country with limited airspace, land-locked by friendly nations and always remain neutral. A T-38 would be overkill. Their last war was a Civil War in 1847 and before that their last war was against France with Britain and co. in 1815. They've never even fought a war involving aircraft, so I think you're placing far too much weight in their pretty little graphs.
List of wars involving Switzerland - Wikipedia
 
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BMD said:
That must be why the F-35 has sold more to developed air forces then.

In Korea it was up against the F-15K. The F-15 won because they already had F-15s and made a lot of the parts. Then they decided to buy F-35s simply because it's the best hands down, no comparison needed. It's really like F-22 vs F-15C, it's a simple choice.

Switzerland have no genuine defence needs. They are a small country with limited airspace, land-locked by friendly nations and always remain neutral. A T-38 would be overkill. Their last war was a Civil War in 1847 and before that their last war was against France with Britain and co. in 1815. They've never even fought a war involving aircraft, so I think you're placing far too much weight in their pretty little graphs.
List of wars involving Switzerland - Wikipedia
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All the F-35 customers to date are hardcore American allies. There's no point even considering other fighter jets for them even if you give them a French F-22.
 
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randomradio said:
All the F-35 customers to date are hardcore American allies. There's no point even considering other fighter jets for them even if you give them a French F-22.
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So are Europeans not also French allies? A French F-22? The only french F-22 is an air-fix model in shop windows.
 
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