Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Panzerjager said:
it will be great to watch you do this for every single F-35 country every time as if it was new each time. Always a sad day when supply can't meet such high demand.
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Lockheed chief executive Jim Taiclet and chief financial officer Jay Malave reported these projections in a call with investors on April 18, with both software and hardware issues contributing to delays.
Look like all the delays between former block2i and block3F dev.

But that's OK all f-35 customers are only customers they can wait like Poland. That's not like if they had been a war just at their border. But wait ....:unsure:

AT the very end without a new engine all the TR3 / block4 is a no way evolution.
 
Panzerjager said:
Once one european fighter declared "supercruise" the other 2 Europeans simply had no choice but to declare it too. of the 3 european fighters, Gripen, Rafale, and Typhoon all claim supercruise this is of course thanks to the F-22 raising the standard to an unbearable degree they can't match.

Ironically the only fighters that don't supercruise (haha) are the Super Hornet and F-35. Both of which never attempted to say otherwise. F-18 EF and F-35 can't supercruise, but they relieve themselves of being pretenders and posers.

we are then left with a false narrative mainly constructed by the French themselves about supercruise and 5th generation all of whom remember LM saying it, but none of them can find LM actually saying it? how curious. its like one french man just says he heard it from another french man. under such "truths" we labor. when we ask to see LM saying that, they suddenly come up empty.

step 1 was walling themselves off against the Eurofighter consortium after the breakup. Then step 2. they walled themselves off again with the F-35 and created an echo chamber where they all feed off one another. Theres a reason bonplan can't find any proof of what he claims LM "said" he can't even remember where he heard it of course. There is a reason again why we got a narrative posted by another frenchman that just repeated the same false narrative again! of rewritten history. Maybe LM did say this, but I have never seen it outside mainly French people repeating it.

Not anything like real evidence, but this is worth noting an aviation forum from 2003 that says the F-35 won't supercruise. it was common knowledge that the French are attempting to rewrite:

www.key.aero

does the f-35 have supercruise capability?

any1 kno?
www.key.aero www.key.aero

basic aviation students knew F-35 was no supercruiser 20 years ago, and was not required or designed to be. Then the French echo chamber attempted to rewrite history. The US was open. F-22 could supercruise, F-35 and F-18EF could not, and we never pretended. The European fighters had to "keep up appearances" and here we are. none of the engines in these fighters was designed for supercruise. the intakes would have to be redesigned as well. an actual supercruise designed Rafale would look very different, and allah be praised may actually be capable of Mach 2, like the other 6th generation fighter Gripen E.

it wasn't until the F-35 won in Switzerland, and many French fanboys could no longer ignore reality. (although some continue to do so) impressive work on internet twitter polls, finest fighter to ever lose to the Gripen in Brazil. Truly a world beating 6th generations superfighter overall. other than all the times its loses, its great. its almost like there is a wide gulf between all the marketing the French believe like its mother's milk poured in from France herself, versus what everyeone else "discovers" about Rafale.

Rafale is good but its not a superfighter, and the bad news for Rafale is that it is relatively easy to imitate. the funniest thing about the supercruise obsession is the F-35 openly is not a supercruiser, and no one thinks much of it except the French who think that such a thing matters and it will hopefully make them more like the American F-22.
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I think this is the article that many F-35 contras sight as LM saying F-35 can supercruise.

-He noted that, in a close-turning dogfight with modern missiles, even a 1960s-era fighter such as the F-4 can get into a "mutual kill scenario" at close range with a fourth generation fighter. That’s why the F-35 was provided with the ability to fuse sensor information from many sources, triangulating with other F-35s to locate, identify, and fire on enemy aircraft before they are able to shoot back.

The F-35’s systems will even allow it to shoot at a target "almost when that airplane is behind you," thanks to its 360-degree sensors.

According to O’Bryan, the F-35 also can interrogate a target to its rear, an ability possessed by no other fighter.

If you survive a modern dogfight, O’Bryan claimed, "it’s based on the countermeasures you have, not on your ability to turn."

If the situation demands a turning dogfight, however, the F-35 evidently will be able to hold its own with any fighter. That is a reflection on the fighter’s agility. What’s more, a potential future upgrade foresees the F-35 increasing its air-to-air missile loadout from its current four AIM-120 AMRAAMs to six of those weapons.

The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners.

"Mach 1.2 is a good speed for you, according to the pilots," O’Bryan said.

The high speed also allows the F-35 to impart more energy to a weapon such as a bomb or missile, meaning the aircraft will be able to "throw" such munitions farther than they could go on their own energy alone.

There is a major extension of the fighter’s range if speed is kept around Mach .9, O’Bryan went on, but he asserted that F-35 transonic performance is exceptional and goes "through the [Mach 1] number fairly easily." The transonic area is "where you really operate."

In combat configuration, the F-35’s range exceeds that of fourth generation fighters by 25 percent. These are Air Force figures, O’Bryan noted. "We’re comparing [the F-35] to [the] ‘best of’ fourth gen" fighters. The F-35 "compares favorably in any area of the envelope," he asserted.

If I remember my war Rafale needed Growlers to bomb trucks and a couple tanks far away from IADS on the first night. :unsure:
 
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randomradio said:
Being in combat and becoming combat proven are not the same. Mike Tyson punching you in a street fight doesn't make you a pro boxer.

Bombing ISIS or Iran's proxy soldiers doesn't teach you how to fight the Chinese. In any case, in just a few years, the US is gonna have to prove their way of war in a real war.
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its great that the F-35 and the US for that matter can have more combat experience than the Chinese, but it is the Americans who have to prove themselves. When did China last take down an IADS? Shoot down enemy fighters? Achieve Air superiority? run a continuous bombing campaign?

the relatively inexperienced Chinese are going to fight Mike Tyson soon? I love how the Chinese can do nothing but they get the edge and the US is the untested noob, but the F-35 which has more combat than the PLAAF is not "real" war? funny standards there.
 
Panzerjager said:
its great that the F-35 and the US for that matter can have more combat experience than the Chinese, but it is the Americans who have to prove themselves. When did China last take down an IADS? Shoot down enemy fighters? Achieve Air superiority? run a continuous bombing campaign?

the relatively inexperienced Chinese are going to fight Mike Tyson soon? I love how the Chinese can do nothing but they get the edge and the US is the untested noob, but the F-35 which has more combat than the PLAAF is not "real" war? funny standards there.
Click to expand...
You know how it is with these people. They would rather cheer for their enemy against the US even though "they" would get their a$$es handed to them in a conflict against the chicoms, likely crying to Uncle Sucker for assistance or expect Uncle Sucker to help them.
 
Innominate said:
I think this is the article that many F-35 contras sight as LM saying F-35 can supercruise.

-He noted that, in a close-turning dogfight with modern missiles, even a 1960s-era fighter such as the F-4 can get into a "mutual kill scenario" at close range with a fourth generation fighter. That’s why the F-35 was provided with the ability to fuse sensor information from many sources, triangulating with other F-35s to locate, identify, and fire on enemy aircraft before they are able to shoot back.

The F-35’s systems will even allow it to shoot at a target "almost when that airplane is behind you," thanks to its 360-degree sensors.

According to O’Bryan, the F-35 also can interrogate a target to its rear, an ability possessed by no other fighter.

If you survive a modern dogfight, O’Bryan claimed, "it’s based on the countermeasures you have, not on your ability to turn."

If the situation demands a turning dogfight, however, the F-35 evidently will be able to hold its own with any fighter. That is a reflection on the fighter’s agility. What’s more, a potential future upgrade foresees the F-35 increasing its air-to-air missile loadout from its current four AIM-120 AMRAAMs to six of those weapons.

The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners.

"Mach 1.2 is a good speed for you, according to the pilots," O’Bryan said.

The high speed also allows the F-35 to impart more energy to a weapon such as a bomb or missile, meaning the aircraft will be able to "throw" such munitions farther than they could go on their own energy alone.

There is a major extension of the fighter’s range if speed is kept around Mach .9, O’Bryan went on, but he asserted that F-35 transonic performance is exceptional and goes "through the [Mach 1] number fairly easily." The transonic area is "where you really operate."

In combat configuration, the F-35’s range exceeds that of fourth generation fighters by 25 percent. These are Air Force figures, O’Bryan noted. "We’re comparing [the F-35] to [the] ‘best of’ fourth gen" fighters. The F-35 "compares favorably in any area of the envelope," he asserted.

If I remember my war Rafale needed Growlers to bomb trucks and a couple tanks far away from IADS on the first night. :unsure:
Click to expand...
The LM claim would have predated the 2012 date of this article, F-22 has been axed years before this.

there is also the important bit there that the F-35 is not technically a super cruising aircraft.

The narrative they are trying to push says that LM claimed all 5th generation aircraft were supercruisers, but then changed their mind sometime in there because the F-35 can't supercruise-- but the Rafale Can! which is supposed to break everyone's brains and drain the critical thinking right out of them!

LM said all 5th generation fighters supercruise!

yet the Rafale supercruises and the F-35 does not! Check mate!

Who knows what generations are other than marketing! Since its all marketing, Rafale can then take the top spot as the French endlessly argue semantics. it is all an illusion you see, what means anything? I guess a GaN Radar F-18C is now equal to a Rafale--better in fact!

The big issue for the Rafale Cabal is that we can call the aircraft whatever, and what aircraft is picked is going to be a combination of capability and price. The French will say politics too, which is always a factor of varying degrees. They blame politics but obsess over marketing.

in the meantime the F-35 has overtaken Europe, and the French in typical form are trying to win via semantics because they still haven't figured out that it doesn't matter, and they still have yet to figure out how to lose gracefully on the internet either. The humiliation is the thrill you see. It must be thrilling, or they would take a break.

We have no idea why of course or when, or if what "LM said" happened at all. the JSF contract was won by LM back in 2001. So it would seem stupid for them to ever make such a claim about such things after that date. I messed up the name as well. I said Burbage. it was O'Bryan. my mistake.

I am very curious to see the proof. because again, if LM said it, when they said it matters- as much as marketing matters at all that is. There is also a curiouisty to see where this all started and how it metastisized into this thing that "everyone knows" in certain circles but is unknown in most other places and that all the people who "know" don't have any idea where they first heard it or who said it. its a classic rumor taking on a life of its own.

I live in the United States and I don't know many aviation followers who thought the F-35 was going to supercruise ever. I posted the forum for just that reason. years before the F-35 first flew everyone knew it was not going to supercruise because that was not a program objective. there were plenty of other program objectives JSF had to achieve instead, very few of them easy. it was just common knowledge that the F-35 would not supercruise like the F-22. nothing really does.

so far bonplan actually showed us things that showed LM emphasizing multiple times that Supercruise was unique to the F-22 and this is perfectly reasonable considering that LM in trying to keep the F-22 viable would not want to make it sound like the F-35 and F-22 are interchangeable
 
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Panzerjager said:
The LM claim would have predated the 2012 date of this article, F-22 has been axed years before this.

there is also the important bit there that the F-35 is not technically a super cruising aircraft.

The narrative they are trying to push says that LM claimed all 5th generation aircraft were supercruisers, but then changed their mind sometime in there because the F-35 can't supercruise-- but the Rafale Can! which is supposed to break everyone's brains and drain the critical thinking right out of them!

LM said all 5th generation fighters supercruise!

yet the Rafale supercruises and the F-35 does not! Check mate!

Who knows what generations are other than marketing! Since its all marketing, Rafale can then take the top spot as the French endlessly argue semantics. it is all an illusion you see, what means anything? I guess a GaN Radar F-18C is now equal to a Rafale--better in fact!

The big issue for the Rafale Cabal is that we can call the aircraft whatever, and what aircraft is picked is going to be a combination of capability and price. The French will say politics too, which is always a factor of varying degrees. They blame politics but obsess over marketing.

in the meantime the F-35 has overtaken Europe, and the French in typical form are trying to win via semantics because they still haven't figured out that it doesn't matter, and they still have yet to figure out how to lose gracefully on the internet either. The humiliation is the thrill you see. It must be thrilling, or they would take a break.

We have no idea why of course or when, or if what "LM said" happened at all. the JSF contract was won by LM back in 2001. So it would seem stupid for them to ever make such a claim about such things after that date. I messed up the name as well. I said Burbage. it was O'Bryan. my mistake.

I am very curious to see the proof. because again, if LM said it, when they said it matters- as much as marketing matters at all that is. There is also a curiouisty to see where this all started and how it metastisized into this thing that "everyone knows" in certain circles but is unknown in most other places and that all the people who "know" don't have any idea where they first heard it or who said it. its a classic rumor taking on a life of its own.

I live in the United States and I don't know many aviation followers who thought the F-35 was going to supercruise ever. I posted the forum for just that reason. years before the F-35 first flew everyone knew it was not going to supercruise because that was not a program objective. there were plenty of other program objectives JSF had to achieve instead, very few of them easy. it was just common knowledge that the F-35 would not supercruise like the F-22. nothing really does.

so far bonplan actually showed us things that showed LM emphasizing multiple times that Supercruise was unique to the F-22 and this is perfectly reasonable considering that LM in trying to keep the F-22 viable would not want to make it sound like the F-35 and F-22 are interchangeable
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Rafale fanboys start going off about its super cruise capability I just post Safran's CEO own words about Rafale has not received a thrust update/upgrade since it entered service which has gotten a lot heavier since. The bloody plane's top speed of mach 1.8 was done in clean configuration and on the A model yet somehow the fatty F3 version can super cruise with a center tank and 4 missiles. Go figure.

Maybe in a 25-20 degree angle... maybe.
 
Panzerjager said:
The LM claim would have predated the 2012 date of this article, F-22 has been axed years before this.

there is also the important bit there that the F-35 is not technically a super cruising aircraft.

The narrative they are trying to push says that LM claimed all 5th generation aircraft were supercruisers, but then changed their mind sometime in there because the F-35 can't supercruise-- but the Rafale Can! which is supposed to break everyone's brains and drain the critical thinking right out of them!

LM said all 5th generation fighters supercruise!

yet the Rafale supercruises and the F-35 does not! Check mate!

Who knows what generations are other than marketing! Since its all marketing, Rafale can then take the top spot as the French endlessly argue semantics. it is all an illusion you see, what means anything? I guess a GaN Radar F-18C is now equal to a Rafale--better in fact!

The big issue for the Rafale Cabal is that we can call the aircraft whatever, and what aircraft is picked is going to be a combination of capability and price. The French will say politics too, which is always a factor of varying degrees. They blame politics but obsess over marketing.

in the meantime the F-35 has overtaken Europe, and the French in typical form are trying to win via semantics because they still haven't figured out that it doesn't matter, and they still have yet to figure out how to lose gracefully on the internet either. The humiliation is the thrill you see. It must be thrilling, or they would take a break.

We have no idea why of course or when, or if what "LM said" happened at all. the JSF contract was won by LM back in 2001. So it would seem stupid for them to ever make such a claim about such things after that date. I messed up the name as well. I said Burbage. it was O'Bryan. my mistake.

I am very curious to see the proof. because again, if LM said it, when they said it matters- as much as marketing matters at all that is. There is also a curiouisty to see where this all started and how it metastisized into this thing that "everyone knows" in certain circles but is unknown in most other places and that all the people who "know" don't have any idea where they first heard it or who said it. its a classic rumor taking on a life of its own.

I live in the United States and I don't know many aviation followers who thought the F-35 was going to supercruise ever. I posted the forum for just that reason. years before the F-35 first flew everyone knew it was not going to supercruise because that was not a program objective. there were plenty of other program objectives JSF had to achieve instead, very few of them easy. it was just common knowledge that the F-35 would not supercruise like the F-22. nothing really does.

so far bonplan actually showed us things that showed LM emphasizing multiple times that Supercruise was unique to the F-22 and this is perfectly reasonable considering that LM in trying to keep the F-22 viable would not want to make it sound like the F-35 and F-22 are interchangeable
Click to expand...
F-35 is whole generation ahead of Rafale. Just LO shaping and IWB puts it in a higher class. But Rafale is as good as any 'non-stealthy' plane can ever be. Both have got their advantages, but F-35 is not mature and full of bugs while Rafale is a plane which is full-on mature for a high-intensity combat.

I think post Block-4, F-35 may become what it always needed to be. In fact, in my personal opinion MRFA 2.0 is a direct shoot between Rafale(hopefully F5) and Block-4 F-35.
 
Innominate said:
Are you saying the old Hornet is 6th gen then? :)
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If they say the Rafale is 6th gen tech. This seems to make then call the old hornet 7th gen
"Raytheon’s APG-79(V)4 is a derivative of APG-79 radar system. It features the first airborne gallium nitride (GaN) AESA fire-control technology."
 
I like this comment from my last post :
“The F-35 JPO is pursuing our multi-year strategy to address the most pressing ALIS hardware and software challenges while simultaneously evolving to ODIN,” the F-35 program said in its response. “A key to this strategy is delivering incremental value as we mature capabilities. Elements of ODIN have been fielded today, such as virtualized software to run on ODIN hardware. We are continuing to build on that with foundational infrastructure elements as well as data archive and retrieval functionality in 2023. Fielding these software capabilities will improve unit hardware performance, provide easier data access, and enable enhanced fleet analytics.”

“We anticipate the full transition to a modern software architecture will begin fielding to F-35 squadrons in 2025,” the JPO said. “We will continuously develop software, infrastructure, data, and hardware capabilities to stay aligned with the air vehicle and continue to address the services’ priorities, within available resources.”

Is it to say that virtualization is the signature of modern software only ? Just for recal virtualization is done on rafale from the very first version (2006) and then is much more modern than F-35 architecture !
 
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Rajput Lion said:
F-35 is whole generation ahead of Rafale. Just LO shaping and IWB puts it in a higher class. But Rafale is as good as any 'non-stealthy' plane can ever be. Both have got their advantages, but F-35 is not mature and full of bugs while Rafale is a plane which is full-on mature for a high-intensity combat.
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No. Right now the F-35's radar, EODAS and EW is superior to Rafales. In fact the F-15ex, F-15E/EPAWSS/APG-82/sniper pod and F-18E blkiii is superior than Rafale. F-15E's started getting their EPAWWS last July.

Don't ever ever ever compare Rafales avionics/capabilities to the F-35's capabilities it doesn't come close. F-35 in 3F has e-virus capability... according to General Hostage.

Lulz. Right that dope anonymous is bashing his keyboard that he can't respond to the e-virus claim. :ROFLMAO:
Rajput Lion said:
I think post Block-4, F-35 may become what it always needed to be. In fact, in my personal opinion MRFA 2.0 is a direct shoot between Rafale(hopefully F5) and Block-4 F-35.
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F-35 in blk-4 will be a whole different fighter that just happens to look like an F-35. It will likely become Gen 5.5+ or early 6th in blk-4.
Optimist said:
If they say the Rafale is 6th gen tech. This seems to make then call the old hornet 7th gen
"Raytheon’s APG-79(V)4 is a derivative of APG-79 radar system. It features the first airborne gallium nitride (GaN) AESA fire-control technology."
Click to expand...
I think you mean 7.5 gen.
 
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RASALGHUL said:
Please elaborate more on this!
So that I will know that you aren't trolling.
Click to expand...
How dare you question my word! For that I shall slap you with my white glove gently on your cheek.

Now if I must elaborate so that you know I'm not blowing smoke... then elaborate I must!


LANGLEY AFB: If you want to stop a conversation about the F-35 with a military officer or industry expert, then just start talking about its cyber or electronic warfare capabilities.

These are the capabilities that most excite the experts I’ve spoken with because they distinguish the F-35 from previous fighters, giving it what may be unprecedented abilities to confuse the enemy, attack him in new ways through electronics (think Stuxnet), and generally add enormous breadth to what we might call the plane’s conventional strike capabilities.

So I asked Air Force Gen. Mike Hostage, head of Air Combat Command here, about the F-35’s cyber capabilities, mentioning comments by former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz several years ago about the F-35 having the “nascent capability” to attack Integrated Air Defense Systems (known to you and me as surface to air missiles) with cyber weapons.

Hostage deftly shifts the conversation each time I press for insights on the F-35’s cyber and EW. He doesn’t refuse to talk, as that would be impolite and, well, too obvious.

He starts off with what sounds like a shaggy dog story.

“When I was a youngster flying F-16s we would go fly close air support at the National Training Center for the Army,” he tells me. “They would have a large ground force: blue guys, OpFor [opposing forces], they’d go out and have big battles on the ground. And they would bring the [Close Air Support] CAS in to participate. They’d let us come in, we’d fly for 30 minutes and then they’d shoo us away because they wanted to have their force on force and if they allowed the CAS to participate during force on force it fundamentally changed the nature of the ground battle.”

Want To Shoot Someone? Turn Off The Cyber

Then he brings us back to the issue at hand, and mentions the Air Force’s Red Flag exercises, the pinnacle of the service’s force-on-force training: “Fast forward to today. We do Red Flag for the purpose of giving our young wingman those first 10 days of combat, or first 10 combat missions in a controlled environment because what we’ve studied over the years of conflict is the first 10 missions are where you’re most likely to lose your fleet. So if you can replicate that first 10 in a controlled environment with a very high degree of fidelity, you’ve greatly increased the probability that they’re going to survive their actual first 10 combat missions. So Red Flag is the closest we can get to real combat without actually shooting people.”

Allies are a key part of the Red Flag exercises, especially as the F-35 becomes the plane flown by most of our closest allies, from Britain to Israel to Australia and beyond. But the toughest, most realistic exercises at Red Flag occur when it’s only American pilots flying against each other.

During those Red Flag-3 exercises they integrate space and cyber weapons into the fight, including those the F-35 possesses. Those capabilities make are “so effective that we have to be very careful that in a real world scenario we don’t hurt ourselves allowing them to play.”

Then he gets back to the point at hand. “So, to answer your question, it has tremendous capability. We’re in the early stages of exploring how to get the most effectiveness out of cyber and space, but we’re integrating it into the Air Operations Center; we’re integrating it into the combat plan; and it is absolutely the way of the future. And you’re right, the AESA radar has tremendous capacity to play in that game.”

Boil all that down and it comes to this. Gen. Hostage is saying that the F-35’s cyber capabilities are so effective — combined with space assets, which are often difficult to distinguish in effect from cyber capabilities — that the planes have to stop using them so the pilots can shoot at each other.

The obvious question that arises from this is, how can a radar system also be a cyber weapon? We’ve all seen those World War II movies where the radar dish sweeps back and forth. The energy beams out, strikes the enemy plane and comes back as a blip. What makes an AESA radar special is the fact that it beams energy in digital zeroes and ones — and the beam can be focused. This allows the radar to function as both a scanning radar, a cyber weapon and an electronic warfare tool.
breakingdefense.com

'A God's Eye View Of The Battlefield:' Gen. Hostage On The F-35 - Breaking Defense

For years, the news about the most expensive conventional weapons system in US history, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, has been driven by its enormous cost, design, and schedule screw-ups. The Pentagon and Congress and the public have rarely spoken about what the F-35 would do, how effectively...
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

Oh dear you have made me feel faint questioning me I must lay for a bit and recover from you vicious attack on me.
 
Oh dear, it's a chinese conspiracy.

www.scmp.com

F-35 tops China’s threat list, beating older F-22: military study

Ranking could have implications for how China develops its own technologies and tactics in response, researchers said.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
A comparison of US jets by Chinese military scientists has shown the F-35 to be a greater threat in the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait than the older F-22, which is still generally regarded as the world’s most powerful stealth aircraft.
The study, published in the Chinese language journal Modern Defence Technology, analysed the threat levels of various US military aircraft in different stages of a penetrating counter air operation at a range of distances from China’s coastline.
 
Panzerjager said:
its great that the F-35 and the US for that matter can have more combat experience than the Chinese, but it is the Americans who have to prove themselves. When did China last take down an IADS? Shoot down enemy fighters? Achieve Air superiority? run a continuous bombing campaign?

the relatively inexperienced Chinese are going to fight Mike Tyson soon? I love how the Chinese can do nothing but they get the edge and the US is the untested noob, but the F-35 which has more combat than the PLAAF is not "real" war? funny standards there.
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The difference between the US and others is, others have not experimented with procuring untested equipment in large numbers. So the Chinese can compensate for their lack of experience with their tech lead.

April's done, so the next window for an invasion is Sept-Oct. If the Chinese attack in just a few months, the US will basically be participating with a Mike Tyson with a broken arm. As per the Pentagon, they need until 2026 to have the minimum B4 capabilities in order to fight the Chinese, not counting the obvious delays.

The US today has 125+ combat-coded F-22s and some 150+ combat-coded F-35s out of 300+. The Chinese have 200+ J-20s in total. If we assume Oct 2025 or April 2026 is D-Day, then the US would have added about 100 more F-35s, whereas the PLAAF would have added 100-150 jets every year, or about 300-450 jets in just 3 years. So we are talking 500-650 J-20s by the time both sides fight. I'd actually say the Chinese would take the lead in both numbers and technology by then. This is not counting the fact that the US needs global presence, whereas the Chinese presence is regional.

The F-22 needs upgrades, the F-35 needs to finish development, neither jet is ready to take on the J-20, even by 2025-26. And even if the J-20 is not combat proven, at least the J-20 will be operationally proven by then, while maintaining a terrain advantage. The USAF isn't in a very good position over Taiwan considering ground realities. All the Chinese have to do is not be incompetent.
Innominate said:
You know how it is with these people. They would rather cheer for their enemy against the US even though "they" would get their a$$es handed to them in a conflict against the chicoms, likely crying to Uncle Sucker for assistance or expect Uncle Sucker to help them.
Click to expand...

Stating ground realities isn't cheering.
 
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Optimist said:
Oh dear, it's a chinese conspiracy.

www.scmp.com

F-35 tops China’s threat list, beating older F-22: military study

Ranking could have implications for how China develops its own technologies and tactics in response, researchers said.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
A comparison of US jets by Chinese military scientists has shown the F-35 to be a greater threat in the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait than the older F-22, which is still generally regarded as the world’s most powerful stealth aircraft.
The study, published in the Chinese language journal Modern Defence Technology, analysed the threat levels of various US military aircraft in different stages of a penetrating counter air operation at a range of distances from China’s coastline.
Click to expand...

The F-35 obviously has superior A2G capabilities, consdering what the article is referring to. This has been known for nearly 2 decades now.
 
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