Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Are the biggest risks to GCAP political and financial, rather than technological or industrial?(BAE Systems)
And
The only way is Tempest
To be seen here:
And here:
With comments on the F-35
 
Are the biggest risks to GCAP political and financial, rather than technological or industrial?(BAE Systems)
And
The only way is Tempest
To be seen here:
And here:
With comments on the F-35

For Italy and GB, Tempest replaces the Typhoon, and in Japan it replaces the F-15. It was always known that the F-35 was the low-end of all the major air forces. For Turkey too, their TF-X was supposed to be high-end to the F-16 and F-35's low-end.

France is the only one-type among major air forces.
 

Range: The F-35 Might Have One Flaw That Can't Be Easily Fixed

The F-35 stealth fighter might be one of the most dominant fighter jets ever. However, does the Joint Strike Fighter have the range needed to take on nations like China and Russia?
by Maya Carlin Follow Mayarcarlin on TwitterL

F-35 Range Considerations

Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II is the premier fifth-generation fighter of all three tactical aviation services: the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps. Its history has been plagued by some challenges, particularly cost and timing overruns; however, since its employment, it has matured into a safe, functional, and capable aircraft.

Despite its current success, there is always room for improvement. In particular, critics of the F-35 have long noted its rather short range.

The A and C variants, employed by the Air Force and Navy respectively, have ranges of 1,200nm while the B variant or the Marine Corps can only manage 900nm.

By comparison, the F-22 Raptor can reach 1,600nm while the F/A-18 Super Hornet maxes at 1,800nm. In blue water operations over the open ocean or in the vast reaches of a potential Indo-Pacific battlefield, every extra mile counts.

So, does the F-35 need a longer reach? While more range is always desirable, any change or upgrade comes with associated costs which must be carefully measured.

F-35 Range Challenges?

The primary threat facing the F-35 and raising questions about its range is a potential conflict with China.

In addition to the long distances involved in a war in East Asia, enemy defenses would add another layer to the challenge. China has invested in conventional cruise missiles and medium to long-range ballistic missiles with an eye on denying the U.S. Navy, particularly its carriers, the freedom to operate in the South China Sea and beyond.

For Air Force F-35s based in Japan and Korea, the transit to a potential flare-up around Taiwan would put them at the bleeding edge of their operational range. Every variant of F-35 can have its range extended by aerial refueling, however, these tanker aircraft are incredibly vulnerable and the farther they can be kept from any frontline conflict the better.

F-35s can utilize their stealth capabilities to evade detection, but that does no good if the tanker that got them there or the carrier they need to return to are destroyed.

Range Solutions for the Joint Strike Fighter

Each of the forces is exploring a solution to increase the range of their F-35s and allow them to operate within any Anti-Access/Area Denial zone China attempts to create while keeping other assets safe.

The Marine Corps is pursuing their Force Design 2030, a multi-pronged approach to reorient the force to more effectively fight against peer and near-peer competitors, particularly in island chains in and around Southeast Asia. As far as the F-35 is concerned, this means establishing expeditionary advanced base operations with the bare minimum necessary to get their F-35s close enough to engage the adversary while protecting the rest of their supply chains.

Meanwhile, the Air Force and Navy are looking at other options for their Lightnings. As early as 2019, the USAF commissioned contractors GE and Pratt and Whitney to produce an adaptive engine, which changes its configuration based on flight parameters to make the engine more efficient.

Currently, GE has completed their initial design, the XA100 with Pratt’s XA101 not far behind. USAF and company estimates hope that these engines will produce 25% more fuel efficiency, allowing the F-35 to go farther and stay on station longer.

In addition to better fuel efficiency, new engines would grant many other benefits, from increased thrust to better cooling to more electrical output. The planned life of the F-35 includes many updates and upgrades, primarily in avionics and sensors. These usually require more power and cooling and the current F135 engine is already struggling to keep up. A new engine would, therefore, have a multifold benefit to the F-35's capabilities.

On the Navy side of the house, the MQ-25 Stingray is coming closer to fruition. The Stingray is a carrier-based unmanned refueling system with some stealth capabilities. While F/A-18s are capable of carrier-borne refueling, the introduction of the Stingray will free up these assets for other crucial missions as well as potentially extend the range of aircraft into contested airspace without risking big, vulnerable tankers.

All three services are attempting to extend the range of the F-35 and allow it to carry out its missions without jeopardizing other assets. Whether this means deploying from smaller, less visible bases, getting new engines, or leveraging unmanned refueling drones, there is no doubt planners acknowledge the need to improve this aspect of the Lightning.

Ultimately, it remains to be seen which avenue each service pursues as they offer their benefits and drawbacks. Regardless, work continues to make the F-35 the premier fifth-generation fighter of the U.S. air services.
 
For Italy and GB, Tempest replaces the Typhoon, and in Japan it replaces the F-15. It was always known that the F-35 was the low-end of all the major air forces. For Turkey too, their TF-X was supposed to be high-end to the F-16 and F-35's low-end.

France is the only one-type among major air forces.
Tempest is in same category asEF Typhoon or Rafale it won't a replace F15.
 

Range: The F-35 Might Have One Flaw That Can't Be Easily Fixed

The F-35 stealth fighter might be one of the most dominant fighter jets ever. However, does the Joint Strike Fighter have the range needed to take on nations like China and Russia?
by Maya Carlin Follow Mayarcarlin on TwitterL

F-35 Range Considerations

Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II is the premier fifth-generation fighter of all three tactical aviation services: the Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps. Its history has been plagued by some challenges, particularly cost and timing overruns; however, since its employment, it has matured into a safe, functional, and capable aircraft.

Despite its current success, there is always room for improvement. In particular, critics of the F-35 have long noted its rather short range.

The A and C variants, employed by the Air Force and Navy respectively, have ranges of 1,200nm while the B variant or the Marine Corps can only manage 900nm.

By comparison, the F-22 Raptor can reach 1,600nm while the F/A-18 Super Hornet maxes at 1,800nm. In blue water operations over the open ocean or in the vast reaches of a potential Indo-Pacific battlefield, every extra mile counts.

So, does the F-35 need a longer reach? While more range is always desirable, any change or upgrade comes with associated costs which must be carefully measured.

F-35 Range Challenges?

The primary threat facing the F-35 and raising questions about its range is a potential conflict with China.

In addition to the long distances involved in a war in East Asia, enemy defenses would add another layer to the challenge. China has invested in conventional cruise missiles and medium to long-range ballistic missiles with an eye on denying the U.S. Navy, particularly its carriers, the freedom to operate in the South China Sea and beyond.

For Air Force F-35s based in Japan and Korea, the transit to a potential flare-up around Taiwan would put them at the bleeding edge of their operational range. Every variant of F-35 can have its range extended by aerial refueling, however, these tanker aircraft are incredibly vulnerable and the farther they can be kept from any frontline conflict the better.

F-35s can utilize their stealth capabilities to evade detection, but that does no good if the tanker that got them there or the carrier they need to return to are destroyed.

Range Solutions for the Joint Strike Fighter

Each of the forces is exploring a solution to increase the range of their F-35s and allow them to operate within any Anti-Access/Area Denial zone China attempts to create while keeping other assets safe.

The Marine Corps is pursuing their Force Design 2030, a multi-pronged approach to reorient the force to more effectively fight against peer and near-peer competitors, particularly in island chains in and around Southeast Asia. As far as the F-35 is concerned, this means establishing expeditionary advanced base operations with the bare minimum necessary to get their F-35s close enough to engage the adversary while protecting the rest of their supply chains.

Meanwhile, the Air Force and Navy are looking at other options for their Lightnings. As early as 2019, the USAF commissioned contractors GE and Pratt and Whitney to produce an adaptive engine, which changes its configuration based on flight parameters to make the engine more efficient.

Currently, GE has completed their initial design, the XA100 with Pratt’s XA101 not far behind. USAF and company estimates hope that these engines will produce 25% more fuel efficiency, allowing the F-35 to go farther and stay on station longer.

In addition to better fuel efficiency, new engines would grant many other benefits, from increased thrust to better cooling to more electrical output. The planned life of the F-35 includes many updates and upgrades, primarily in avionics and sensors. These usually require more power and cooling and the current F135 engine is already struggling to keep up. A new engine would, therefore, have a multifold benefit to the F-35's capabilities.

On the Navy side of the house, the MQ-25 Stingray is coming closer to fruition. The Stingray is a carrier-based unmanned refueling system with some stealth capabilities. While F/A-18s are capable of carrier-borne refueling, the introduction of the Stingray will free up these assets for other crucial missions as well as potentially extend the range of aircraft into contested airspace without risking big, vulnerable tankers.

All three services are attempting to extend the range of the F-35 and allow it to carry out its missions without jeopardizing other assets. Whether this means deploying from smaller, less visible bases, getting new engines, or leveraging unmanned refueling drones, there is no doubt planners acknowledge the need to improve this aspect of the Lightning.

Ultimately, it remains to be seen which avenue each service pursues as they offer their benefits and drawbacks. Regardless, work continues to make the F-35 the premier fifth-generation fighter of the U.S. air services.

The article totally missed CFTs and EFTs from the equation. And Stingrays could accompany the F-35C for deep strike missions.

VCE should do the trick in the long term.
 
The article totally missed CFTs and EFTs from the equation. And Stingrays could accompany the F-35C for deep strike missions.

VCE should do the trick in the long term.
Yes but il totally missed something elle also : the fuel used to cool the plane must be in a good quantity. Since the cooling is already a bad factor of the plane you can't degrade it more by usine to much fuel.
 
To a certain extend due to the fuel cooling needs going to block4 with more cooling needs will degrade the f-35 range capabilities.
 
Yes but il totally missed something elle also : the fuel used to cool the plane must be in a good quantity. Since the cooling is already a bad factor of the plane you can't degrade it more by usine to much fuel.

I don't think it matters. When you are at the target, you have more than half the fuel available, ie, well away from bingo.

And when you are egressing, you are most likely in passive mode, running away basically.
 
I don't think it matters. When you are at the target, you have more than half the fuel available, ie, well away from bingo.

And when you are egressing, you are most likely in passive mode, running away basically.
it depends if you need a resupply before returning, and with the F-35 against China that's likely.
 
I don't think it matters. When you are at the target, you have more than half the fuel available, ie, well away from bingo.

And when you are egressing, you are most likely in passive mode, running away basically.
I don't it matter or not. I just say that the margin with blk4 will be lower than with blok3F.
 
B4 should solve quite a bit of the cooling issues though, with the new engine and cooling modifications.
You can't say that it will solve the problem. The only thing you can say is that it will mitigate it. But since the problem will be bigger we don't how the new engine and cooling systems will realy mitigate the problem or only manage à bigger problem.
 
it depends if you need a resupply before returning, and with the F-35 against China that's likely.

I suppose it will depend on how badly PLAAF is degraded in the first few days.

It also depends on when they fight. If they fight this year, then the F-35s are not ready. But the closer they get to 2030, the more capable the USAF will become.

If the Chinese allow the USAF to build up over the next 4 years, then the B4 F-35s and upgraded F-22s should be able to support deep strike missions.
 
I suppose it will depend on how badly PLAAF is degraded in the first few days.

It also depends on when they fight. If they fight this year, then the F-35s are not ready. But the closer they get to 2030, the more capable the USAF will become.

If the Chinese allow the USAF to build up over the next 4 years, then the B4 F-35s and upgraded F-22s should be able to support deep strike missions.
In 2014 you could have issued this same sentence for 2018!
 
You can't say that it will solve the problem. The only thing you can say is that it will mitigate it. But since the problem will be bigger we don't how the new engine and cooling systems will realy mitigate the problem or only manage à bigger problem.

If that happens, they will just have to manage missions by distributing workload. So all F-35s in a formation will have their own tasks so not all avionics are put in use at the same time.

But at least now they know exactly what they need out of their engine and cooling systems, so they will know how to manage that with the correct engine upgrade.
 
In 2014 you could have issued this same sentence for 2018!

In 2014 and even in 2018, they were groping in the dark. Now they know.

So in 2025, they get more F-35s with TR-3. In 2026, they get initial B4, maybe, and start receiving upgraded F-22s. In 2027, they get B-21 alongside more F-35s and F-22s, enough to maintain parity with the J-20. In 2028, they get a dozen B-21s, some NGAD, more F-22s and hundreds of B4 F-35s. And they get quite a bit of their China-specific weapons too, like the JASSM-XR and F-15EX capable of carrying them, the LRHW, better air defenses etc in large enough numbers. So from 2028 onwards, it's just a numbers game.

And who knows what sort of new-fangled tech the US will introduce by 2030.

So, as per my assessment, the Chinese have 3 years at best to take advantage of the USAF's current weaknesses. Beyond that they can only achieve air parity, which means they will need sea control, and that's gonna take them into the 2040s.
 
If that happens, they will just have to manage missions by distributing workload. So all F-35s in a formation will have their own tasks so not all avionics are put in use at the same time
Yes somethings like a law considering the weather conditions, the colder the air the less F-35 in flight for the same mission.
In fact I suppose that pilots at each flight looks for a reference thermoclyne, for example the 10 °C thermoclyne. If they have it then they can operate in a normal manner, When they don't (in summer for example), they have to add a tanker or a bigger team as you have said.
 
Yes somethings like a law considering the weather conditions, the colder the air the less F-35 in flight for the same mission.
In fact I suppose that pilots at each flight looks for a reference thermoclyne, for example the 10 °C thermoclyne. If they have it then they can operate in a normal manner, When they don't (in summer for example), they have to add a tanker or a bigger team as you have said.

Not sure if we can speculate to that extent. Let's see if the Lot 20-24 go through, it would imply confidence in the program.