Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[BMD]

Did you forget AESA are multifunction? Through array choreography, two different signals can be emitted at once using two arrays separated using software.



I'd trust Boeing, who were part of the F-35 program, than just some guy on the internet. Makes sense eh? They in fact made it part of their official presentation, ie, the F-35 does not have any real electronic attack function, "so buy the Growler".



Well, the F-35 doesn't even have that.

Channelized means multi-channel as it is, so no, you wouldn't need two for one emitter. Power supply upgrade for receivers? Did you forget AESA are multifunction, because the EW receivers/transmitters are all AESA.

Boeing have nothing to do with the EW system, in fact they have nothing to do with the program at all aside from the failed X-32 and their subsequent butt-hurt. Exactly, propaganda, come buy our aircraft. Their claim is demonstrably wrong, as shown in this tweet. In fact, electronic countermeasures can include jamming, attack is a higher level jamming function.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/next-batch-of-f-35as-delivered-to-raaf

www.strategicfront.org

Says who? Boeing? May as well ask Dassault. May as well ask my ar5e in fact.

but only in X band. It helps, but it's not enough.

The radar is separate to the ASQ-239 EW system. Different company NG - APG-81 Radar, BAE - ASQ-239 EWS.

 

[BMD]

Italian Air Force Identifies Russian An-12 Off Estonia In First Ever Intercept By F-35 Supporting NATO BAP

The Italian F-35 jets deployed to Estonia, scored their first intercept under NATO command in the Baltic region. On May 14, 2021, the Italian Air Force

theaviationist.com

 

[randomradio]

Channelized means multi-channel as it is, so no, you wouldn't need two for one emitter. Power supply upgrade for receivers? Did you forget AESA are multifunction, because the EW receivers/transmitters are all AESA.

Boeing have nothing to do with the EW system, in fact they have nothing to do with the program at all aside from the failed X-32 and their subsequent butt-hurt. Exactly, propaganda, come buy our aircraft. Their claim is demonstrably wrong, as shown in this tweet. In fact, electronic countermeasures can include jamming, attack is a higher level jamming function.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/next-batch-of-f-35as-delivered-to-raaf

www.strategicfront.org

Says who? Boeing? May as well ask Dassault. May as well ask my ar5e in fact.

The radar is separate to the ASQ-239 EW system. Different company NG - APG-81 Radar, BAE - ASQ-239 EWS.

Boeing is not retarded enough to give a fake presentation to the US forces about a program they were also a part of.

 

[BMD]

Boeing is not retarded enough to give a fake presentation to the US forces about a program they were also a part of.

They weren't part of the F-35 though, the X-32 got dropped 20 years ago, the EW suite development hadn't even begun at this point. The EW suite is BAE and the radar is NG. It's like saying that Britain is a part of Rafale because it bid for MMRCA.

 

[randomradio]

They weren't part of the F-35 though, the X-32 got dropped 20 years ago, the EW suite development hadn't even begun at this point. The EW suite is BAE and the radar is NG. It's like saying that Britain is a part of Rafale because it bid for MMRCA.

Everything that you want your aircraft to do is decided when the RFP is released. So that was long before the X-32 even took flight. The EW suite isn't an afterthought.

Stop selling bridges. The F-35 doesn't have a dedicated electronic attack using the EW suite, it's just a passive system. Only the radar can perform EA.

 

[BMD]

Everything that you want your aircraft to do is decided when the RFP is released. So that was long before the X-32 even took flight. The EW suite isn't an afterthought.

Stop selling bridges. The F-35 doesn't have a dedicated electronic attack using the EW suite, it's just a passive system. Only the radar can perform EA.

So you think the F-35 RFP said 'no jamming please' despite the older F-15, F-16 and F-18s already having on-board jamming? Additionally, using your argument, you're basically saying that the Typhoon and Rafale EW systems must be the same, so the Typhoon system must do everything SPECTRA does.

All these diagrams and pictures about the EW suite mention electronic attack. It is only by virtue of the fact that somebody mentioned that the radar does jamming that you assume the EW system does not do it. This is like assuming that someone's desktop or TV can't play movies because their smartphone does it. Or assuming that someone's dad can't punch very hard because their sister can. Having a radar that jams is decades more advanced than an EW system that can.

Does the F-35 jam as wide a spectrum as NGJ on the Growler? Probably not, and that's what the Boeing goon is trying to market, but the Growler is a dedicated EW plane with off-board jamming gear so expecting the F-35 to match that is like expecting a Tejas to carry the bombload of a B-52.

 

[randomradio]

So you think the F-35 RFP said 'no jamming please' despite the older F-15, F-16 and F-18s already having on-board jamming? Additionally, using your argument, you're basically saying that the Typhoon and Rafale EW systems must be the same, so the Typhoon system must do everything SPECTRA does.

All these diagrams and pictures about the EW suite mention electronic attack. It is only by virtue of the fact that somebody mentioned that the radar does jamming that you assume the EW system does not do it. This is like assuming that someone's desktop or TV can't play movies because their smartphone does it. Or assuming that someone's dad can't punch very hard because their sister can. Having a radar that jams is decades more advanced than an EW system that can.

Does the F-35 jam as wide a spectrum as NGJ on the Growler? Probably not, and that's what the Boeing goon is trying to market, but the Growler is a dedicated EW plane with off-board jamming gear so expecting the F-35 to match that is like expecting a Tejas to carry the bombload of a B-52.

Both the F-22 and F-35 do not have electronic attack capability. The F-35 has some, it will get it through the radar someday. Other than that its only means of self-protection is the towed decoy. So there's nothing surprising about it, the F-22 and F-35's EW suites follow the same pattern. In fact, the first modern digital radar warner jammer that BAE has made this decade is for the F-15. The US simply put too much onus on stealth, so they decided to forgo EA on the F-22 and F-35.

But I do believe it can be upgraded in the future.

Never said anything about the radar being bad, it's a very good thing. Just that it's not the EW suite performing the jamming. You see, the NGJ is not sensor fused, it's standalone. Otoh, the F-35's radar and EW suite are sensor fused.

 

[BMD]

Both the F-22 and F-35 do not have electronic attack capability. The F-35 has some, it will get it through the radar someday. Other than that its only means of self-protection is the towed decoy. So there's nothing surprising about it, the F-22 and F-35's EW suites follow the same pattern. In fact, the first modern digital radar warner jammer that BAE has made this decade is for the F-15. The US simply put too much onus on stealth, so they decided to forgo EA on the F-22 and F-35.

But I do believe it can be upgraded in the future.

Never said anything about the radar being bad, it's a very good thing. Just that it's not the EW suite performing the jamming. You see, the NGJ is not sensor fused, it's standalone. Otoh, the F-35's radar and EW suite are sensor fused.

Prove it. There's a diagram right here saying that the F-35 does. That holds until you prove otherwise.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1392459238539149314

It doesn't get any clearer really.

AN/ASQ-239 F-35 electronic warfare/countermeasure system | BAE Systems | United States

The AN/ASQ-239 system is an advanced, proven, and cost-effective electronic warfare suite, providing the F-35 with end-to-end capabilities, now and into the future.

web.archive.org

Always active, AN/ASQ-239 provides all-aspect, broadband protection, allowing the F-35 to reach well-defended targets and suppress enemy radars.

There's also an AFM F-22 special that states the F-22 EW suite has jamming too, I posted it here before.

 

[randomradio]

Prove it. There's a diagram right here saying that the F-35 does. That holds until you prove otherwise.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1392459238539149314

It doesn't get any clearer really.

AN/ASQ-239 F-35 electronic warfare/countermeasure system | BAE Systems | United States

The AN/ASQ-239 system is an advanced, proven, and cost-effective electronic warfare suite, providing the F-35 with end-to-end capabilities, now and into the future.

web.archive.org

There's also an AFM F-22 special that states the F-22 EW suite has jamming too, I posted it here before.

The radar and EW suite are integrated. Which is the point of your first tweet.

And in the first graphic, it clearly says RWR coverage. So that's about all the passive systems there are. And even the radar helps pick up data for the EW suite.

You are arguing against the very design philosophy of the aircraft. All passive, only turn on radar for LPI mode. Hence no electronic attack against enemy radars.

 

[BMD]

The radar and EW suite are integrated. Which is the point of your first tweet.

And in the first graphic, it clearly says RWR coverage. So that's about all the passive systems there are. And even the radar helps pick up data for the EW suite.

You are arguing against the very design philosophy of the aircraft. All passive, only turn on radar for LPI mode. Hence no electronic attack against enemy radars.

These sites are talking about the EW suite, which is the AN/ASQ-239.

The first graphic is only discussing ESM (Electronic Surveillance Measures), that's why it only shows the radar being used for ESM too. Does that mean the radar is only passive too? Damn, you're dumber than Anonymous's bottom.

That's just a philosophy you made up. The F-35 can do either, its suite draws spheres around threats it's detected, but as you know, a pop-up threat can pop-up anywhere and could pop-up too directly underneath, DAS could pick that up but it might come from under cover, so active is still needed, hence why it has active.

You need to provide some proof that ASQ-239 doesn't have jamming, because I've produced several links saying that it does, and at the moment you're just wasting my time with hearsay with nothing to back it up, just like a Rafale blogger. Produce some evidence or don't reply, because you're messing up the thread. @Ashwin

 

[randomradio]

These sites are talking about the EW suite, which is the AN/ASQ-239.

The first graphic is only discussing ESM (Electronic Surveillance Measures), that's why it only shows the radar being used for ESM too. Does that mean the radar is only passive too? Damn, you're dumber than Anonymous's bottom.

That's just a philosophy you made up. The F-35 can do either, its suite draws spheres around threats it's detected, but as you know, a pop-up threat can pop-up anywhere and could pop-up too directly underneath, DAS could pick that up but it might come from under cover, so active is still needed, hence why it has active.

You need to provide some proof that ASQ-239 doesn't have jamming, because I've produced several links saying that it does, and at the moment you're just wasting my time with hearsay with nothing to back it up, just like a Rafale blogger. Produce some evidence or don't reply, because you're messing up the thread. @Ashwin

Read what's at the bottom very, very closely. It says "NAVAIR".

That's the USN. It's not manufacturer crap like you've been posting.

Homepage | NAVAIR

NAVAIR - Naval Air Systems Command - mission is to provide full life-cycle support of naval aviation aircraft, weapons and systems operated by Sailors and Marines.

www.navair.navy.mil

 

[RISING SUN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1394696786208432135

 

[BMD]

View attachment 19875

Read what's at the bottom very, very closely. It says "NAVAIR".

That's the USN. It's not manufacturer crap like you've been posting.

Homepage | NAVAIR

NAVAIR - Naval Air Systems Command - mission is to provide full life-cycle support of naval aviation aircraft, weapons and systems operated by Sailors and Marines.

www.navair.navy.mil

Two points.

1. That's a Boeing slide from 2014, if you hadn't clipped the top of the slide to hide the guilty that would be obvious.

2. It makes no reference to the F-35 specifically because they knew they wouldn't get away with that. It just says 'strike fighter', F-18C/D/E/F, AV-8B. The threat circles would be a lot smaller if it were for the F-35.

The sources I posted are from this year and are specific.

And yeah, what would a manufacturer know about their own product right?

 

[BMD]

https://www.jsf.mil/ew

The AN/ASQ-239 system protects the F-35 with advanced technology for next generation missions to counter current and emerging threats. Equipped with offensive and defensive electronic warfare options for the pilot and aircraft, the suite provides fully integrated radar warning, targeting support, and self-protection, to detect and defeat surface and airborne threats.

The system provides the pilot with maximum situational awareness, helping to identify, monitor, analyze, and respond to potential threats. Advanced avionics and sensors provide a real-time, 360-degree view of the battlespace, helping to maximize detection ranges and provide the pilot with options to evade, engage, counter or jam threats.

Always active, AN/ASQ-239 provides all-aspect, broadband protection, allowing the F-35 to reach well-defended targets and suppress enemy radars. The system operates in signal-dense environments, providing the aircraft with radio-frequency and infrared countermeasures, and rapid response capabilities. AN/ASQ-239 is a platform-level solution that provides the F-35 with improved reliability and maintainability, helping reduce long term life cycle costs in keeping the aircraft fielded now and into the future.

The radar is on a separate page entirely.

The NAVAIR graphic could also be interpreted to mean that only the F-35's radar-based X-band jamming has the same range as Growler jamming, i.e. attack rather than defensive jamming.

 

[Hydra]

https://www.jsf.mil/ew

The radar is on a separate page entirely.

The NAVAIR graphic could also be interpreted to mean that only the F-35's radar-based X-band jamming has the same range as Growler jamming, i.e. attack rather than defensive jamming.

AFAIK, EA 18Growler is the only fighter jet that having inbuilt electronic attack capability . Rest all are of EW self protection suit or with limited jamming capability fighters. A combination of tactics and EW suits made such aircrafts survivable during war.

Yeah, some people may not consider EA18 a fighter, but reality is its airframe is of a fighter and it carries air to air offensive weapons, and is the only jet ever made a F22 kill in simulated warfare at BVR range.

 

[randomradio]

Two points.

1. That's a Boeing slide from 2014, if you hadn't clipped the top of the slide to hide the guilty that would be obvious.

2. It makes no reference to the F-35 specifically because they knew they wouldn't get away with that. It just says 'strike fighter', F-18C/D/E/F, AV-8B. The threat circles would be a lot smaller if it were for the F-35.

The sources I posted are from this year and are specific.

And yeah, what would a manufacturer know about their own product right?

Yes, as I've pointed it out before, it's a Boeing presentation to the USN.

How stupid do you think Boeing is to be making sh!t up and presenting that sh!t to their primary customer?

And no, your sources are not "specific". As I've already said it before any attack functions are only done by the radar and towed decoy, this is what they mean by "electronic attack" and "electronic countermeasures" resply.

The F-35 does not have dedicated transmitters for EA or ECM.

 

[BMD]

AFAIK, EA 18Growler is the only fighter jet that having inbuilt electronic attack capability . Rest all are of EW self protection suit or with limited jamming capability fighters. A combination of tactics and EW suits made such aircrafts survivable during war.

Yeah, some people may not consider EA18 a fighter, but reality is its airframe is of a fighter and it carries air to air offensive weapons, and is the only jet ever made a F22 kill in simulated warfare at BVR range.

That's exactly my point, that graphic randomradio posted is showing offensive stand-off jamming capabilities, and I agree that the F-35 can only do that with the radar, but the ASQ-239 is a defensive suite that can do wideband defensive jamming for self-protection, which is effective over closer ranges.

Yes, as I've pointed it out before, it's a Boeing presentation to the USN.

How stupid do you think Boeing is to be making sh!t up and presenting that sh!t to their primary customer?

And no, your sources are not "specific". As I've already said it before any attack functions are only done by the radar and towed decoy, this is what they mean by "electronic attack" and "electronic countermeasures" resply.

The F-35 does not have dedicated transmitters for EA or ECM.

The Growler is an electronic attack aircraft, what it's showing is offensive jamming capabilities, which is a different thing to self-protection jamming. Regular fighters, including the Rafale, have no offensive jamming capabilities whatsoever built-in, only defensive jamming. In fact no fighters aside from the F-35 and F-22 have onboard offensive jamming capabilities in any band or any aspect. ASQ-239 is a defensive EW suite and hence only does defensive jamming. So the graphic is right, you've just interpreted it wrong. Do you seriously expect any fighter to have onboard, all-aspect, full spectrum offensive jamming like NGJ provides LOL? A Rafale on the same image would have zero capabilities.

The radar is listed separately.

 

[BMD]

AFAIK, EA 18Growler is the only fighter jet that having inbuilt electronic attack capability .

Just to add, it's hardly 'in-built', it's in giant pods with their own power generation, which is the only thing that makes attack possible. On a regular fighter, only the radar has sufficient power for offensive jamming, but most don't have the capability.

 

[BMD]

 

[Bon Plan]

View attachment 19890

one is a pretty ballet dancer, the other a heavy folk dance dancer... Not the same league.