Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
- Thread starter Nick
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Makes perfect sense. The base EW architecture of the F-35 allow it to be added without making a special version of the aircraft, as per the EA-18G. This means more F-35s and less Growlers can be purchased, since the F-35 can perform the Growler role with NGJ fitted if need be.
Such a move means the F-35 would be able to perform stand-off offensive jamming in all bands, but probably nearer to the threat area than the Growler can due to LO of bas aircraft. Without the pods the F-35 still has wideband defensive jamming, and frontal aspect offensive X-band jamming as per the diagram. Without the pods the Growler has no offensive jamming abilities.
The slide is from 2014, see date on bottom. Back then there were no plans to put NGJ on the F-35 and NGJ was nowhere near complete in any case. Boeing were trying to flog as many EA-18Gs as possible. Now it's merely about coverage until NGJ is cleared for operations on the F-35, but you're right, once it goes on there's very little point in more EA-18Gs, and that point stands regardless of the capabilities of the ASQ-239.
F-35 + NGJ means that X-Band radars will be useless since they will get double jammed by the EA F-35s and single jammed from all the F-35s in the strike package. Their best bet would be to hide underground and hope the F-35s don't see the entrance.
How does it matter if something is from 2014 or later? The configuration was likely decided a decade before that. There has been no hardware addition since the day the design was done more than a decade ago.
Even though the NGJ was always gonna go first on the Growler, it still doesn't really make a difference since the F-35 is to get the same capability only a few years later.
Personally, I'm hoping I'm wrong and I'd like the F-35 to actually have a multi-spectrum SPJ capability 'cause the F-35 has nothing else going for it if its stealth capabilities are defeated. But let's not forget that the Israelis specifically asked for their own SPJ capability installed using a pod. So, for whatever reason, they think what the F-35 offers is not enough.
It was never planned that NGJ would go on the F-35. The diagram is showing offensive electronic attack capabilities of Growler with pods vs on-board offensive electronic attack capabilities of an F-35. It is not showing defensive jamming capabilities.
I don't get what your argument is here. SPJ and OJ are two different roles, don't forget that the USN and USMC are not replacing F-18E/Fs with F-35s, so OJ jamming is still a required role, not that it does any harm to augment F-35 VLO, wideband SPJ and X-Band OJ with full spectrum OJ too.
You might also note that the F-35 also has a damn good radar and SA suite and flies clean, not to mention having OJ capability against the most common radar band and active decoys + future off-board jamming capabilities too.
General Dynamics Reaches Milestone With F-35 Radome Delivery; Carlo Zaffanella Quoted - ExecutiveBiz
General Dynamics Reaches Milestone With F-35 Radome Delivery; Carlo Zaffanella Quoted
blog.executivebiz.com
Raytheon looks at integrating AMRAAM-ER in F-35A internal carriage
The US Air Force's F-35A could field two examples of the larger missile, one in each internal weapons bay.
www.flightglobal.com
Raytheon looks at integrating AMRAAM-ER in F-35A internal carriage
The US Air Force’s F-35A could field two examples of the larger missile, one in each internal weapons bay.
Originally posted by @STEPHEN COHEN but very relevant to this thread.
www.thedrive.com
F-22 And F-35 Datalinks Finally Talk Freely With Each Other Thanks To A U-2 Flying Translator
Beyond linking up F-22s and F-35s, the U-2 and its gateway payload also connected naval and ground assets, and more.
www.thedrive.com
Lots of interesting tidbits in there.
We already know that the F-22 is going to be obsolete for its role in the near future, the USAF admitted the same a few years ago and this was repeated in the article again. It's why the USAF resisted reopening of the F-22 production line. Not to mention, while supporters of the F-22 were calling it a bad idea, they didn't know that the NGAD had progressed significantly, to the point where a TD is already flying.
The oft repeated issue of the F-22 was range, and we know that the USAF is looking at very high range for the NGAD in order to penetrate deep inside Chinese airspace, also to escort the B-21 inside Chinese airspace when the time comes. I suppose the USAF want the NGAD to be able to manage at least 2.5-3 times more ferry range than the F-22. This will allow it to operate from Guam and fly all the way to Chengdu and back. Similarly, they will want to be able to reach Delhi from BIOT. Or deep inside Russia from Europe or Japan.
Then we also know that the F-22's IWBs are not impressive enough for the USAF anymore, so the NGAD could have much bigger IWBs instead. With the need for very high range and very high payload, the NGAD will likely no longer be a traditional fighter jet. We may be seeing a flying wing design instead. So agility may no longer be important. But speed will be extremely important, so it's not going to be your traditional flying wing design, it could be a bit more radical, with highly swept wings.
With the US seemingly intending to operate only 4 jets, presumably after 2040, or even 2035, this can drastically reduce their spending on sustaining their current zoo, allowing more money for the punch. Also the F15s and F-16s are going to be in small numbers, only a few hundred, so most of the fleet will be NGAD and F-35 after 2035.
And lastly, the F-16 replacement, if a decision is going to be made only 6 or 7 years later, then it's obvious the planned induction date is around the mid 2030s, and timed to replace the F-16 before the planned date of 2048. It could eat up some of the F-35s as well. So it's unlikely the USAF's F-35 fleet will be anywhere near 1763. Won't be surprised if this jet ends up being better than the F-35. Hell, won't be surprised if they end up with a single engine AMCA.
US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35
At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.
www.flightglobal.com
I hope all F-35 customers will also remember they need to buy a squadron of F-15EX so as to clear a path for the F-35 stealth striker that's supposed to be able to enter first to clear the path for legacy 4th gen platforms like the F-15 that had to clear the path for the F-35.
I think the F-36 (or whatever the proposed replacement will be called) is really just a threat by USAF to get Lockheed to optimize production of the F-35 and save costs. I don't think the USAF will end up with 1700+ F-35s but definitely over 1000. I don't think they will opt for another single engine 4th gen manned fighter when evolving threats mean range and payload are the needs. The F-15EX is brand new and fulfills the role of long range bomb truck. I suspect unmanned and easily attritable "fighter companions" will be what ultimately replaces the F-16 (though the F-16 will still serve well into the 2050s at the current rate and even further for domestic air patrol, national guard and whatnot). Somehow the A-10 will keep dodging bullets in Congress and never be retired.
US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35
At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.
I hope all F-35 customers will also remember they need to buy a squadron of F-15EX so as to clear a path for the F-35 stealth striker that's supposed to be able to enter first to clear the path for legacy 4th gen platforms like the F-15 that had to clear the path for the F-35.
I don't think most countries buying the F-35 will be conducting deep strikes on near peer adversaries without being in a coalition with a greater power. By that I mean, I don't think the Dutch will be conducting unilateral strikes on the Russians in Kaliningrad or something like that. Smaller countries operating the F-35 will be doing so in a greater European or American coalition.
The USAF needs a counter terrorist fighter jet. So this program is definitely going to happen since the F-35 is too expensive for such a role. This aircraft could also serve as the F-16 and A-10 replacement. Both jets are already functioning beyond their technical limits.
Yeah, I think the F-35 numbers will easily cross 1000 as well. Only the last 200 or 300 may be cancelled. It can also be timed in such a way that a lot of money is freed up for the full rate production of the NGAD. F-35 production for the USAF was expected to complete in 2037. By removing 200-300 jets, we could see all that freed up money paying for 100-150 NGAD.
A-10s will see service until 2040. Politics defeated prudent decision making a long time ago. So that's 300+ jets meant for air shows and insurgencies.
Is that like F-35 clearing path for Rafale in these recent contracts.US Air Force tests using F-15’s EPAWSS to clear path for F-35
At its Northern Edge 21 exercises in Alaska, the US Air Force (USAF) tested the Boeing F-15 conducting an electronic attack to clear a path for a Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter.
I hope all F-35 customers will also remember they need to buy a squadron of F-15EX so as to clear a path for the F-35 stealth striker that's supposed to be able to enter first to clear the path for legacy 4th gen platforms like the F-15 that had to clear the path for the F-35.
He's not making a literal point. He's just pointing out that the F-35 doesn't have all the capabilities actually needed for SEAD/DEAD, or is unusable.