Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Detection and tracking at this level isn't consistent, make it too small and the radar might just see the right target at the wrong time for the pilot.

Usually they just take shotguns.

Theoretically you could teach this missile to ignore the rearmost target anyway and if I have two targets maintaining distance and velocity well... What about the cable?

A towed decoy is not meant to be seen on radar, it's meant to be seen as an EM source for radars and missiles to take their cue from, while the aircraft remains passive and stealthy and hidden within the EM background. If you want to increase RCS, then you have chaff for that, or an expendable decoy like the Britecloud.

The decoy isn't going to drag any cable along once its detached, it works both ways.
 
You forgot China. Which has more formidable flankers than the Russians and will give western 4th gen fleet huge problems. Russian plane are junk but it's not like they can't cause huge problems to most western airforces which don't have the f35
Problem with chicoms is they will never disclose any problems with their fighters (which is smart in my opinion) unlike the US does with their F-35s and the rest of their fighter fleet. Russian Flankers are known as hangar queens when used a lot so it's not weird to think that copies/clones of Flankers are going to require more maintenance after flying for certain amount of time. Chicoms don't fly their fighters like the US does or other western air forces I wonder what would happen to a nations Flanker fleet if they flew them as much as the US flies their F-15, F-16, F-18 and F-35 fleets. How long would those Flankers last before they become grounded for maintenance. Chicoms can claim whatever but I guarantee you their Flanker pilots do not get anywhere near as much flight time as they claim. How many of their Flanker fleet will be available in a major naval air conflict against Taiwan or Japan... or both at same time? Better yet after 3 days of a major naval air conflict how many Flankers will be available?

When US deploys F-35, including F-35Bs on LHA's, they have a 80%+ MCR even F-22s when deployed like in Okinawa have similar numbers.
 
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Problem with chicoms is they will never disclose any problems with their fighters (which is smart in my opinion) unlike the US does with their F-35s and the rest of their fighter fleet. Russian Flankers are known as hangar queens when used a lot so it's not weird to think that copies/clones of Flankers are going to require more maintenance after flying for certain amount of time. Chicoms don't fly their fighters like the US does or other western air forces I wonder what would happen to a nations Flanker fleet if they flew them as much as the US flies their F-15, F-16, F-18 and F-35 fleets. How long would those Flankers last before they become grounded for maintenance. Chicoms can claim whatever but I guarantee you their Flanker pilots do not get anywhere near as much flight time as they claim. How many of their Flanker fleet will be available in a major naval air conflict against Taiwan or Japan... or both at same time? Better yet after 3 days of a major naval air conflict how many Flankers will be available?

When US deploys F-35, including F-35Bs on LHA's, they have a 80%+ MCR even F-22s when deployed like in Okinawa have similar numbers.
You mean the F-35s you deploy can't or won't upload Stuxnet kind of E virus when dealing with PLAAF ? Would that be a correct reading of the situation TEEHEE & if so why ?
 
A towed decoy is not meant to be seen on radar, it's meant to be seen as an EM source for radars and missiles to take their cue from, while the aircraft remains passive and stealthy and hidden within the EM background. If you want to increase RCS, then you have chaff for that, or an expendable decoy like the Britecloud.

The decoy isn't going to drag any cable along once its detached, it works both ways.
For missiles to take their cue from, you make my original point so well, thanks. For missiles to take their cue from. The planes onboard systems can do the jamming until HOJ becomes an issue.
Are you dumb or something? How the hell did you come to this conclusion to what I posted?
The answer is, "yes." I have him on ignore, after several long years of reading his garbage.
You forgot about two potential peer countries to the US, China and India. And one of them even has access to Western jets, including the F-35.
Try actually buying an F-35 and you'll find out that you don't. That was just some guy being diplomatic, you're still too aligned with Russia for access to US stealth tech.
 
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Are you dumb or something? How the hell did you come to this conclusion to what I posted?
This is how I concluded inbred hillbilly.


In response to your post where for all your undermining of PLAAF you don't quite explain why would the JSDF already equipped with F-15s & now your flying wonder F-35s instead of dealing with PLAAF on it's own is leaning on the US & the US itself is busy stitching up alliances with whomever is willing to join it in facing up to the Chinese. The Quad is testament to it. In fact the US is trying to inveigle NATO into it too not to mention that they want to expand the Quad to include South Korea & ASEAN nations or at least prominent ones like Vietnam Philippines Indonesia Malaysia & Singapore. As of now the responses have been mixed but none of these nations are doing anything overt to upset China.

If you've the best AF & the best armaments in the world why would you be intimidated by a country whose Air Force is flying what you consider junk, Puto. You ought to be squaring up with the Chicoms high noon style on your own.

Problem with chicoms is they will never disclose any problems with their fighters (which is smart in my opinion) unlike the US does with their F-35s and the rest of their fighter fleet. Russian Flankers are known as hangar queens when used a lot so it's not weird to think that copies/clones of Flankers are going to require more maintenance after flying for certain amount of time. Chicoms don't fly their fighters like the US does or other western air forces I wonder what would happen to a nations Flanker fleet if they flew them as much as the US flies their F-15, F-16, F-18 and F-35 fleets. How long would those Flankers last before they become grounded for maintenance. Chicoms can claim whatever but I guarantee you their Flanker pilots do not get anywhere near as much flight time as they claim. How many of their Flanker fleet will be available in a major naval air conflict against Taiwan or Japan... or both at same time? Better yet after 3 days of a major naval air conflict how many Flankers will be available?

When US deploys F-35, including F-35Bs on LHA's, they have a 80%+ MCR even F-22s when deployed like in Okinawa have similar numbers.
 
The answer is, "yes." I have him on ignore, after several long years of reading his garbage.
Coming from a guy who calls himself a qualified engineer employed in the defence sector who couldn't tell pilot signals & also was ignorant of the definition of bachelor , who thinks there's nothing of consequence in the ME & also plays games online aged 50 competing with pre teens exclusively & winning against them by cheating apart from looking forward to films like Top Gun 2 beside learning about history & current affairs exclusively thru viewing of Hollywood movies like Dracula & Rambo & who also happens to be Irish to boot .
 
The answer is, "yes." I have him on ignore, after several long years of reading his garbage.
The moron thinks he's being clever. I post and give an explanation why many folks think Russian fighters/Flankers are pretty much junk by listing the countries outside Russia that fly them which is a pretty pathetic list of countries all of them being third world and he comes back with posting about what the head of the F-35 program hinted about the F-35 having E-virus capability. Then he post why does Japan need allies against china as if he making a point when he's not. North Korea and Iran's military are as crappy as it gets but because South Korea wants allies against the North and Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel have join forces against Iran somehow in this guys delusional mind North Korea and Iran's air force is not junk/inferior?

I'll probably put him on ignore too depending how dumber his post get. I have a high tolerance for moronic post but even I have a limit.
 
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For missiles to take their cue from, you make my original point so well, thanks. For missiles to take their cue from. The planes onboard systems can do the jamming until HOJ becomes an issue.

And what if it actually becomes an issue? You do realise if something like the Meteor is after you, then you have merely 10 seconds after the seeker kicks in, right? You really think a missile's gonna get fooled by an alternate jamming source when it's only a few seconds away from impact?

What are you really expecting? The F-35 rolls out its TRD, then uses its jamming to what, protect the TRD? It's like blocking a punch with your face.

All you have to do is apply common sense and things get simpler and easier to understand. Roll out the TRD, jam the radar, jam the missile, if everything fails, release the TRD and run away, let the TRD take the hit. It's pretty simple in concept.

Try actually buying an F-35 and you'll find out that you don't. That was just some guy being diplomatic, you're still too aligned with Russia for access to US stealth tech.

It was a classified presentation made to the IN. Different story that we are currently not interested in it. And no, we aren't aligned with Russia, we don't even use their electronics for the EM spectrum. We use Indo-Israeli comms and other equipment. What the US is worried about is we will drag Russia into any tender and the Americans do not want to divulge information that's given away during a tender to the Russians. So they are open to making a GTG deal instead, but we aren't interested in GTG. Full circle.
 
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Try actually buying an F-35 and you'll find out that you don't. That was just some guy being diplomatic, you're still too aligned with Russia for access to US stealth tech.

F-35.jpg
 
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The moron thinks he's being clever. I post and give an explanation why many folks think Russian fighters/Flankers are pretty much junk by listing the countries outside Russia that fly them which is a pretty pathetic list of countries all of them being third world and he comes back with posting about what the head of the F-35 program hinted about the F-35 having E-virus capability. Then he post why does Japan need allies against china as if he making a point when he's not. North Korea and Iran's military are as crappy as it gets but because South Korea wants allies against the North and Saudi Arabia, UAE and Israel have join forces against Iran somehow in this guys delusional mind North Korea and Iran's air force is not junk/inferior?

I'll probably put him on ignore too depending how dumber his post get. I have a high tolerance for moronic post but even I have a limit.
Listen inbred the only moron here is you . You're here to make a case for the JSF & you're doing a fine job of it minus the trash talk . You continue with the latter & be prepared for it to be reciprocated . I think multiple members including the moderators here have explicitly warned you as opposed to informing you of the same as civil language & you seem mutually exclusive & as they say out here in India - laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahin maante hain. In dummy terms what that means is - you get further with a kick on someone's backside & a fist in the gut followed by polite language than you'd get by just polite language. That's meant for you . Ponder over it .

On topic I doubt there's anyone out here who thinks the JSF is a dud even if they don't quite admit to it & this includes the French contingent here & a couple of other members . What most find ridiculous or worth ridiculing at least is the project management of the JSF which has been nothing short of disastrous only now being salvaged bit by bit .

Apart from that , the JSF set out to be a lot of things for a lot of people with a Christmas shopping list & ended up as a compromise & a very costly compromise at that but it's still the best 5th Gen Fighter Aircraft out there till date & should continue being so till the end of the decade by which time the concept of stealth itself would have undergone a paradigm shift with tracking surveiling & targetting systems vastly improved so as to render stealth as we see it now compromised or at least that's what's predicted.
 
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Listen inbred the only moron here is you . You're here to make a case for the JSF & you're doing a fine job of it minus the trash talk . You continue with the latter & be prepared for it to be reciprocated . I think multiple members including the moderators here have explicitly warned you as opposed to informing you of the same as civil language & you seem mutually exclusive & as they say out here in India - laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahin maante hain. In dummy terms what that means is - you get further with a kick on someone's backside & a fist in the gut followed by polite language than you'd get by just polite language. That's meant for you . Ponder over it .

On topic I doubt there's anyone out here who thinks the JSF is a dud even if they don't quite admit to it & this includes the French contingent here & a couple of other members . What most find ridiculous or worth ridiculing at least is the project management of the JSF which has been nothing short of disastrous only now being salvaged bit by bit .

Apart from that , the JSF set out to be a lot of things for a lot of people with a Christmas shopping list & ended up as a compromise & a very costly compromise at that but it's still the best 5th Gen Fighter Aircraft out there till date & should continue being so till the end of the decade by which time the concept of stealth itself would have undergone a paradigm shift with tracking surveiling & targetting systems vastly improved so as to render stealth as we see it now compromised or at least that's what's predicted.
Get off your high horse or in your case elephant sweet heart. There's a reason why some members in here have you on ignored.

Ponder that.
 
Get off your high horse or in your case elephant sweet heart. There's a reason why some members in here have you on ignored.

Ponder that.
Some members ? You mean the Irishman. A certified clown whom none take seriously . Just like you . Ponder that .
 
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And what if it actually becomes an issue? You do realise if something like the Meteor is after you, then you have merely 10 seconds after the seeker kicks in, right? You really think a missile's gonna get fooled by an alternate jamming source when it's only a few seconds away from impact?

What are you really expecting? The F-35 rolls out its TRD, then uses its jamming to what, protect the TRD? It's like blocking a punch with your face.

All you have to do is apply common sense and things get simpler and easier to understand. Roll out the TRD, jam the radar, jam the missile, if everything fails, release the TRD and run away, let the TRD take the hit. It's pretty simple in concept.



It was a classified presentation made to the IN. Different story that we are currently not interested in it. And no, we aren't aligned with Russia, we don't even use their electronics for the EM spectrum. We use Indo-Israeli comms and other equipment. What the US is worried about is we will drag Russia into any tender and the Americans do not want to divulge information that's given away during a tender to the Russians. So they are open to making a GTG deal instead, but we aren't interested in GTG. Full circle.
You get a missile launch warning well before the seeker kicks in. You use the onboard EA before a missile is launched and likely the radar will never get a lock, no missile fired, no need to use the TRD.

You're not completely aligned but you're partially aligned, just look what happened with Turkey, supposedly a NATO member just because they bought the S-400 system.
Get off your high horse or in your case elephant sweet heart.
It's actually a cow in his case, this is a well established fact.
 
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You get a missile launch warning well before the seeker kicks in. You use the onboard EA before a missile is launched and likely the radar will never get a lock, no missile fired, no need to use the TRD.

EA can be used from a much longer distance using the radar, or using the TRD when you are much closer. So there's no need for onboard EA. The F-35 makers specifically speak of using the TRD to jam radars.

You're not completely aligned but you're partially aligned, just look what happened with Turkey, supposedly a NATO member just because they bought the S-400 system.

We are only strategic partners. We were closer to Russia during the Cold War, after which we mainly became military business partners.

We are in fact politically much more closer to the US through QUAD than we are to Russia. It is actually among the reasons why the FGFA failed. However we have managed to balance our relations between the two quite well. You can't compare India to Turkey.
 
Someone should have given shorty a blade so he could scrap off some RAM when no one is looking. 🥲

:p

In case we are interested in importing our next gen requiremet in either large or small numbers, I won't be surprised if we play the Russians and Americans for the Su-57/F-35 in a few years. We need a competitor if we are to get competitive prices for either, even if bought through GTG.
 
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EA can be used from a much longer distance using the radar, or using the TRD when you are much closer. So there's no need for onboard EA. The F-35 makers specifically speak of using the TRD to jam radars.



We are only strategic partners. We were closer to Russia during the Cold War, after which we mainly became military business partners.

We are in fact politically much more closer to the US through QUAD than we are to Russia. It is actually among the reasons why the FGFA failed. However we have managed to balance our relations between the two quite well. You can't compare India to Turkey.
That doesn't refute the point I made, you get MLD and MAW well before the missile is within seeker range, which may be extremely close against a stealth aircraft.

Turkey is still part of NATO but simply buying the S-400 was enough to stop their F-35 acquisition.
 
That doesn't refute the point I made, you get MLD and MAW well before the missile is within seeker range, which may be extremely close against a stealth aircraft.

It doesn't matter. The TRD will jam both the radar and the missile seeker as the opportunies arise. This way both the radar and the missile are suckered using just one emitting source.
 
It doesn't matter. The TRD will jam both the radar and the missile seeker as the opportunies arise. This way both the radar and the missile are suckered using just one emitting source.
But you wouldn't start creating a bigger RCS in the sky until it's absolutely necessary to throw a decoy.