Err... Spike LR II has a range of 5.5 KM. Further its a tripod mounted portable system.
Spike LR is portable but Nag is not !. They are different classes of missiles. LR is an evolution of the original 14 kg Spike thus comparable to MPATGAM. Not Nag which is ~45 kg missile.
A billion-dollar contract for 8000+ Spike was canceled because of maturity in the development of MPATGM, not Nag. Nag class of missile requirement is limited to <500.
The trouble with NAG and its siblings/children is that none of them are deployed in any good number. Like all DRDO projects they are essentially science projects which have not seen any service. Spike meanwhile is in service in not just Israel's army but elsewhere as well.
Good point, when compared to LRII, MPATGAM is not only heavier but has less than half the range of Spike LR II when launched from ground. Actually MPATGAM is more likely to be comparable with Spike MR. Spike LR is much better than it.
Spike ER II has a range of 15 KM. Nag has much higher mass (43 KG missile) and it only has a range of 4 KM.
The amount of back and forth dancing shows that Army is not totally sure that MPATGM is going to arrive any time soon. Its a DRDO project so another 20 years is not at all unheard of.
Because Israel has a head start of 15 years in developing various parts of ATGMs. We are directly jumping to third generation of ATGMs. There is a serious learning curve.
That's why I said LR is the evolution of the original Spike aka MR. There will be subsequent longer-ranged versions of MPATGM.
I disagree..
Ok, Here is the spec: Quoting <45 kg (2009) which i was referring from wiki. Here is a newer 2017 Euro spike quoting 27kg. So, You could be right here.
My issue with DRDO and Indian MIC is usually that they tend to do a lot of "science projects" but their products seldom hit the market.
Because Israel has a head start of 15 years in developing various parts of ATGMs. We are directly jumping to third generation of ATGMs. There is a serious learning curve.
The Nag project gave way for multiple projects from Helina to SANT. Which will all reach production in the next five years.
That's why I said LR is the evolution of the original Spike aka MR. There will be subsequent longer-ranged versions of MPATGM.
No, LR is heavier than MPATGM.
MPATGM and LR both are 14 kg missiles. But with the launcher, the complete system is 45 kg and 29kg for LR and MPATGM respectively. It is the cost of a longer range. LRII which you became aware of the magic of google is just 2 years old development and its yet to be tested indian army. It would be still heavier with longer range.
It's because of the heavier warhead. These specifications are based on the requirement of the user. It can be optimized for range if we are competing for exports against spike. In fact, Nag locked on a target at 5km as back as 2010.
15 km of ER2 is from helicopters with the use of two-way RF data link which we do not have a requirement. Which can be achieved if we want to. In fact, Nag variants come with Mmw seeker for accuracy which is not available on spike. Which is going in the direction of even advanced multi-mode brimestone.
Nag would be the last to enter production from the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP). Last five years it was trying to improve IIR seeker to work on impossible conditions of desert heat. IA could have ordered it in batches if they want it to. But they didn't !. If you observe the last few years of missile development. The development of every class of missiles has fastened up because we now have the technological base. New members of the ATGM family MPATGM and SANT has been tested 3-4 times in last few years. The same goes for SAMs, QRSAM is completing trials fast with regular trials. They had a test even today as i write this.
Comparing apples to oranges and assuming everything Indian as sub per is the basic Instinct of many. Additional points if its from an NRI. Remember these snarky comments about being late or outdated, time is running out.
@hellbent @Gautam
Somehow India never gets diplomacy right (No access to anyone's technology, except some outdated soviet crap) and nor it gets science right for several decades.
This is not a new revelation to you, is it? We have been discussing the competence of DRDO for far too long. The point is, its changing drastically. We now have all the testing infrastructure, industry maturity, and best of all a long trial and error experience. They demonstrated the interception of a target moving at 7.4km/sec on exo-atmospheric with an accuracy of 10cm. And made a tiktok sized video of interception for the naysayers. Can you fathom how big of a technical challenge it is? And they made it using parts of already proven missiles which took three decades of grudging BM/SAM development. Talking about speed, the entire project took 31 months !. And you think they can't develop contemporary ATGMs?
Your comparison with Israel only shows your naivety on how the world works. Israel is a tiny rich state with the backing of a lone superpower. Their everyday survival depends on having the best military technology. We had/have far bigger or basic problems like feeding the population. Our military projects used to run on a shoestring budget with leftover talent. Passing judgment can be self-fulfilling but once in awhile look at the good side.Here is a brief comparison between Spike development and Indian Nag development :
Main Source
Spike :
1. Need Felt after 1973 conflict with tank columns rolling onto Israel.
2. By 1981 Tammuz (Spike-NLOS) was operational with Pereh vehicle. This was first surface to surface use of TV-Guided missile. It was so successful that even UK, Germany and South Korea imported it in both ATGM and anti artillery roles.
Nag:
1. Design started in 1988. First tested in 1990.
2. Till date neither Nag nor NAMICA has entered production. NO variant of Nag (AFAIK) are operational. No export made, obviously.
Spike :
1. In 1992, Spike MR was tested for first time.
2. In 2000, Spike MR was exported to Finland.
Nag :
1. In 2018, MPATAGM was tested.
2. Devil knows when it will see any induction. Lets not even talk about export.
Spike:
1. In 2010, Spike ER was imported by italy for use on A129 helicopters.
Helina:
2. Till 2020, HELINA/Dhruvastra is still not operational after devil knows how many tests. HELINA's range is also less than Spike.
Israel's GDP is 300 billion dollars. A third of that is Government revenue. Meaning about 100 billion dollars.
I highly doubt Indian government "feeds" people.
False again. As compared to Israel, we have a much larger government revenue, four times larger, our GDP is almost 10 times. SIPRI estimates that Israel spends about 5.3% of its GDP in defence. We spend 1.9% of our GDP in defence. Even with that we spend 2.5-3 times that of Israel in defence.
Well, do you expect Indian defence industry to be any better than government own enterprises like BSNL? or ITI? or PWD? You know the quality of work done by them either directly or using contractor.
Spike Nlos is the best ATGM in its class. HELINA is closer to the pars 3,hj12,hell fire,Umtas and spike lr.
What else do you expect this why its taking 32 years.Thats 17 billion usd in capital allocation.Because
Institute for Policy Research Studies
Even SIPRI has confirmed this. I saw it on their website
I am seeing a lot of rhetoric, what are you actually trying to say?
The company which manufactures spike was no better than DRDO until they made it a limited company. Solution is quite obvious, lunches with no accountability has to end, either they survive delivering stuff or perish stagnating
southfront.org
These are ludicrous claimsHere is a brief comparison between Spike development and Indian Nag development :
Main Source
Spike :
1. Need Felt after 1973 conflict with tank columns rolling onto Israel.
2. By 1981 Tammuz (Spike-NLOS) was operational with Pereh vehicle. This was first surface to surface use of TV-Guided missile. It was so successful that even UK, Germany and South Korea imported it in both ATGM and anti artillery roles.
Nag:
1. Design started in 1988. First tested in 1990.
2. Till date neither Nag nor NAMICA has entered production. NO variant of Nag (AFAIK) are operational. No export made, obviously.
Spike :
1. In 1992, Spike MR was tested for first time.
2. In 2000, Spike MR was exported to Finland.
Nag :
1. In 2018, MPATAGM was tested.
2. Devil knows when it will see any induction. Lets not even talk about export.
Spike:
1. In 2010, Spike ER was imported by italy for use on A129 helicopters.
Helina:
2. Till 2020, HELINA/Dhruvastra is still not operational after devil knows how many tests. HELINA's range is also less than Spike.
battle-updates.com
