Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) Developments : Updates & Discussions

Arpit said:
These are ludicrous claims

Firstly, Nag actually used Israel's head seeker which failed in Rajasthan, your so wonderful Israeli seeker failed.



INDIAN ARMY ORDERS NAG ATGMS

battle-updates.com battle-updates.com

Then DRDO developed a higher resolution IIR seeker (128 x 128) than the Israeli one(64*64). That also failed.

And then DRDO developed a 640x512 resolution seeker, which was tested in 2016.

View attachment 21867


Furthurmore, why comparing Spike with MPATGM or even NAG. Firstly, NAG role is far far different than of Spike,

Defense World

View News at Defense World
www.defenseworld.net www.defenseworld.net

But your lovely Spike missile failed in Rajasthan trials, so how you claiming Israel is ahead in ATGMs, and claiming Spike as world best is laughable claim, they dont even use liquid cooled IIR seeker like in Javelin (which also failed).

Please start to some research before making such ludicrous claims.
Click to expand...

All the imports failed trials. The army's requirement was too high for deserts, they can't help it, so they had to wait for technology to catch up for Nag, and the DRDO finally got it a few years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chain Smoker
Saaho said:
Thats 17 billion usd in capital allocation.

Israel's entire defence budget is 20 billion. They have one of the world's best anti tank missile all made in Israel. And it did not take them this long.
South Africa has a very able ATGM since 1987 and in 2013 made a man portable one too. Their total defence budget is 4 billion dollars.

The damn Nag missile has been under development since 1988 and got inducted in 2018... WTF?
Click to expand...
Nag,Inducted in 2018?
 
Saaho said:
Thats 17 billion usd in capital allocation.
Click to expand...

19% of 64 billion is approx 12 billion dollars

or lets say 19% of 74 billion dollars(official) which is 14 billion dollars not 17. Or lets say even 17 billion dollars.

now you further divide this into

Border roads organization 2.3 billion dollars, fuel purchase- 1 billion dollars, equipment maintenance approx 0.5 billion dollars and other cost overruns.

What your are left is merely 8-9 billion dollars to build arjun, agni shaurya, nag, AAD PAD, Krishna Kaveri, Teja, bheja, Mk2, AMCA, Lakshya, Arihant, Vikrant, Dhruv, Pirthvi, Nirbhaya, Dhanushva, communication networks, and the list goes on.

This is a joke. Thanks to the MoD and Ministry of Finance. Also, most of the allotted budget is not used by them somewhat resmains unused and this is why from sucessive years the the budget gets reduced because they don't use it. 😂

This is the result of stupid administration. The same reason why Air India was doomed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chain Smoker
screambowl said:
Border roads organization 2.3 billion dollars, fuel purchase- 1 billion dollars, equipment maintenance approx 0.5 billion dollars and other cost overruns.

What your are left is merely 8-9 billion dollars to build arjun, agni shaurya, nag, AAD PAD, Krishna Kaveri, Teja, bheja, Mk2, AMCA, Lakshya, Arihant, Vikrant, Dhruv, Pirthvi, Nirbhaya, Dhanushva, communication networks, and the list goes on.

This is a joke. Thanks to the MoD and Ministry of Finance. Also, most of the allotted budget is not used by them somewhat resmains unused and this is why from sucessive years the the budget gets reduced because they don't use it. 😂
Click to expand...

You DO realise that the countries that I am comparing with have TOTAL BUDGET less than this 17 billion dollars. BOTH of them have much lower PPP factor ie their 1 dollar goes much less futher and buys much lesser.

This is NOT lack of funds, its simple stupid mismanagement of funds.

Who the hell asked them go all by themselves for building a COMPLETE aircraft by themself ie Tejas including a god damned engine too. Would have been hell lot of easier if they had not wasted money on doing research on a FCR and Engine and would have focused only on air-craft and A2A missile.

As I said much earlier this is simple incompetence. 8-9 billion nominal per year is NOT a small amount.

Denel's TOTAL equity is $150 million dollars or so.. Its annual revenue is less than 200 million dollars. (http://admin.denel.co.za/uploads/16a2b1e11582fc73d77552a23686b831.pdf) In 8 to 9 billion dollars you can set up multiple denel like companies in India.

Denel has operationalized :
A-Darter and R-Darter A2A missiles.
ATGM : ZT3 since 1980s
Raptor PGMs
Mid range SAMs

All of this they did before 2001. These have been exported to many countries including Pakistan. Compare this to anything developed by DRDO. Most have not yet reached production stage.

Only very recently Indian A2A missiles went for production. Indian IR A2A missile is nowhere to be seen. ATGM is barely into production. Man portable ones, still under development.
 
Last edited:
Saaho said:
You DO realise that the countries that I am comparing with have TOTAL BUDGET less than this 17 billion dollars. BOTH of them have much lower PPP factor ie their 1 dollar goes much less futher and buys much lesser.

This is NOT lack of funds, its simple stupid mismanagement of funds.

Who the hell asked them go all by themselves for building a COMPLETE aircraft by themself ie Tejas including a god damned engine too. Would have been hell lot of easier if they had not wasted money on doing research on a FCR and Engine and would have focused only on air-craft and A2A missile.

As I said much earlier this is simple incompetence. 8-9 billion nominal per year is NOT a small amount.

Denel's TOTAL equity is $150 million dollars or so.. Its annual revenue is less than 200 million dollars. (http://admin.denel.co.za/uploads/16a2b1e11582fc73d77552a23686b831.pdf) In 8 to 9 billion dollars you can set up multiple denel like companies in India.

Denel has operationalized :
A-Darter and R-Darter A2A missiles.
ATGM : ZT3 since 1980s
Raptor PGMs
Mid range SAMs

All of this they did before 2001. These have been exported to many countries including Pakistan. Compare this to anything developed by DRDO. Most have not yet reached production stage.

Only very recently Indian A2A missiles went for production. Indian IR A2A missile is nowhere to be seen. ATGM is barely into production. Man portable ones, still under development.
Click to expand...
South Africa is a unique case though. They have been quite revolutionary in arms and weapons manufacturing similar to Israel. If not for the apartheid removal they would still be quite dangerous and advanced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chain Smoker
Lolwa said:
South Africa is a unique case though. They have been quite revolutionary in arms and weapons manufacturing similar to Israel. If not for the apartheid removal they would still be quite dangerous and advanced.
Click to expand...
Every god damned country is a unique case and so is India. A unique case in messing up things ROYALLY.

I mean if you ask a certain radio, we will need a 500 trillion dollar economy to push even a flock of pigions away from our coasts because they may be backed by China/USA/Cuthulu and devil knows what.

One of these days, I will land in IGI and bring a butter knife with me. Indian government will surrender because Ninda Turtle will not be able to muster enough confidence in Indian defence forces to stop a butter knife. At the end both PMO and Ninda Turtle will do a Ghor Ninda of invading India with a god damned butter knife. Afterwards, CSO Rawat will take the butter knife and will show it to Biden as a "breaking of terns of sale of US weapon". Jai shankar will then organize 50,000 negotiation round till the universe dies its heat death.

Now if the elections were due, PMO will order an air strike! IAF will drop forks and cups on Noida and someone from FM will come on screen and say "Intelligence based mission is over! We have hit 500 invaders and RAW has verified them neutralized by checking their Flashlight signal has disappeared!" Later IAF will privately show some black and white pictures to journalists and when pushed for proof will show MS Paint drawings. Modi will say, cloud interfered in getting a clear radar lock.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: thinkingcap81, Volcano, suryakiran and 2 others
Saaho said:
Every god damned country is a unique case and so is India
Click to expand...
No it isn't. South Africa pretty much is uniquely positioned in being completely self sufficient and being a leader in combat tactics and systems. From MRAP's to smart munitions they have been market leaders in this field until Americans developed their own. A lot of smart munitions pakistani has got is from South Africa, it's similar to how our relationship is with Israel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chain Smoker
Lolwa said:
No it isn't. South Africa pretty much is uniquely positioned in being completely self sufficient and being a leader in combat tactics and systems. From MRAP's to smart munitions they have been market leaders in this field until Americans developed their own. A lot of smart munitions pakistani has got is from South Africa, it's similar to how our relationship is with Israel.
Click to expand...
India is unique because it cannot even develop a working half way decent rifle after 40 years of research and massive amount of money spend.

Meanwhile many African countries just copied AK-47 (preferred by many in armed forces over the botched up job that INSAS is) and started producing it by simple steel stamping process to manufacture receivers and putting wooden furniture.

We innovate to fail when simply copying would have worked. If this is not unique I do not know what is unique.

Ask China and its Type-56 variant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jetray
Saaho said:
India is unique because it cannot even develop a working half way decent rifle after 40 years of research and massive amount of money spend.

Meanwhile many African countries just copied AK-47 (preferred by many in armed forces over the botched up job that INSAS is) and started producing it by simple steel stamping process to manufacture receivers and putting wooden furniture.

We innovate to fail when simply copying would have worked. If this is not unique I do not know what is unique.

Ask China and its Type-56 variant.
Click to expand...
That's more a blame on the bureaucracy and political elite along with not reforming the OFB's than actual capabilities. If you look at the quality of license produced indian arms they are up there with the best. Designing of arms should have been done by the Army instead of the potbellied Babu's and "engineers" in OFB.
 
Lolwa said:
That's more a blame on the bureaucracy and political elite along with not reforming the OFB's than actual capabilities. If you look at the quality of license produced indian arms they are up there with the best. Designing of arms should have been done by the Army instead of the potbellied Babu's and "engineers" in OFB.
Click to expand...
It is not just reforming the OFB or some xyz.....it is the mentality that neither I will do it nor I will let others do it. Govt acts like a hooligan who wants to control everything, in the process does nothing properly. Govt will not hesitate to pay billions of dollars to some foreign company but will not let Indian companies freely develop products even for export. They just want to show who is the boss & keep their hold onto the power( power to make more money ), whether it is foreign tie ups or import every thing has to be thru them.
 
Saaho said:
India is unique because it cannot even develop a working half way decent rifle after 40 years of research and massive amount of money spend.

Meanwhile many African countries just copied AK-47 (preferred by many in armed forces over the botched up job that INSAS is) and started producing it by simple steel stamping process to manufacture receivers and putting wooden furniture.

We innovate to fail when simply copying would have worked. If this is not unique I do not know what is unique.

Ask China and its Type-56 variant.
Click to expand...
We can not only reverse engineer most of the stuff but also improvise or make it better than the original. It is the mentality of govt not allowing any thing to done. Given the amount of money involved in defence deals there is a big scope for private companies to invest and produce products. But govt needs to give them the chance & create proper free market environ where companies will feel confident to invest.
 
Lolwa said:
That's more a blame on the bureaucracy and political elite along with not reforming the OFB's than actual capabilities. If you look at the quality of license produced indian arms they are up there with the best. Designing of arms should have been done by the Army instead of the potbellied Babu's and "engineers" in OFB.
Click to expand...
Its called incompetence. It shows every god damn where when Indian government is included.

Our Foreign Ministry cannot negotiate treaties.
Our Defence Ministry has NO trust in our forces. Heck, they know it. They never equipped them in the first place.
Our bureaucracy cannot move a file at all. From one desk to another.
 
Arpit said:
But your lovely Spike missile failed in Rajasthan trials, so how you claiming Israel is ahead in ATGMs, and claiming Spike as world best is laughable claim, they dont even use liquid cooled IIR seeker like in Javelin (which also failed).

Please start to some research before making such ludicrous claims.
Click to expand...
About time you do an iota of research before commenting :
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Spike Missiles India: Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones | India News - Times of India

India News: Indian infantry soldiers now finally have a new weapon to destroy advancing enemy tanks on the western front with Pakistan. The Army has begun to ind
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

So called "failed" missile system has already been inducted.

This search for perfect system is exact reason why India never inducts any platform. All the deliberation but no action, typical of a beaurocrat run system.

They keep on doing this test and that test covering all the corner cases and then one fine day pakistani forces enter rolling and they run like headless chicken buying the EXACT same system they rejected due to one reason or the other... in emergency mode, on higher price and worse conditions.
 
Arpit said:
But your lovely Spike missile failed in Rajasthan trials
Click to expand...
All these trials are stupid, idiotically deisgned and worthless. They keep on doing trials after trials and take more time to negotiate a deal than to develop a system. In the end they have to eat a humble pie and induct the VERY SAME system they said "failed in this or that trial"...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Spike Missiles India: Army inducts Israeli 'tank killers’ till DRDO develops indigenous ones | India News - Times of India

India News: Indian infantry soldiers now finally have a new weapon to destroy advancing enemy tanks on the western front with Pakistan. The Army has begun to ind
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

So much for Indian mindset of procurement. This is the reality of "Works in Rajasthan" DRDO developed system :

The Army for well over a decade has been clamouring to upgrade from these wire-guided ATGMs to third and fourth-generation ones that are top-attack, fire-and-forget and night-capable. In late 2017, India had scrapped a proposed Rs 3,200 crore deal for 8,356 Spike missiles, 321 launchers and 15 simulators that had been first approved by the Defence Acquisitions Council in June 2009.
This was primarily because the DRDO said it could deliver a more technologically advanced MP-ATGM in the next two-three years, as was then reported by TOI. The Army is now keeping its fingers crossed, keen as it is on equipping all its over 380 infantry battalions and 44 mechanised infantry units with third and fourth-generation ATGMs in the long run.
Click to expand...

Two three years came and went, no MP-ATGM materialized. In the end forces buying Spike... in smaller number. Let a conflict start, and forces will buy rest of Spike missiles too. Rajasthan trials not withstanding. Atleast it exist rather than mythical DRDO fairy cooled IIR seeker missile. Vapourware that is .
 
Last edited:
randomradio said:
All the imports failed trials. The army's requirement was too high for deserts, they can't help it, so they had to wait for technology to catch up for Nag, and the DRDO finally got it a few years ago.
Click to expand...
Yeah "requirement" bullshit. DRDO trying to create mythical technology, in the end it will never materialize. Let see... Where we have see this previously?

Oh yeah! Multi Caliber Individual Weapon System - Wikipedia

Meet the abomination called as Multi Caliber IWS... The rifle in theory can fire 5.56x45 NATO, 7.62x39 and 6.8mm Remington rounds... The catch? You have to change the barrel for each mission. Wonderful design. Sure as hell won't blow up. It was to meet the requirement of the forces. And it could do it all. Only trouble? Damn thing was another INSAS in making and a hodge potch of designs from AR-15, FN FNC and AK-47. Forces decided to use a damned AK-47 instead till Russian license produced AK-203 are inducted.

When a user "requires" something, its more important to understand what they actually need and not build overengineered abominations like above based on just text of requirements. Requirements do not come from heaven.
 
DRDO Flight Tests Final Deliverable Configuration of MPATGM
Posted On: 11 JAN 2022 6:27PM by PIB Delhi
Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) successfully flight tested the final deliverable configuration of Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) on January 11, 2022. The indigenously developed anti-tank missile is a low weight, fire & forget missile and is launched from a man portable launcher, integrated with thermal sight. The missile impacted the designated target and destroyed it. The final impact event was captured on camera and the test has validated the minimum range successfully.

The present test was to prove the consistent performance for the minimum range. All the mission objectives were met. The missile has miniaturised infrared imaging seeker and advanced avionics for on-board control and guidance. The missile performance has been proven for the maximum range in earlier test trials.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh has congratulated DRDO for the consistent performance of the anti-tank missile and said that this is an important step towards Atmanirbhar Bharat in advanced technology-based defence system development. Secretary Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy congratulated the team for the excellent performance of the missile during the test.



ABB/Nampi/DK/RP
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: AbRaj and Sathya
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom