Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF

[STEPHEN COHEN]

What is the usage of AESA radar for jaguar? Rather that money could have been used in MK1A.

Elta wanted a bigger deal

So we expanded the AESA order for
83 LCA MK1 A plus 54 JAGUARS

They give us many things

So there must be a quid pro quo

Something new and lethal

AESA will make Jaguars more effective
For Both Air to Air and Air to Ground role

 

[Sathya]

Jaguar will carry very limited payload

Maximum One Tonnes with Two CCMs

They are used in Packs of 4

To carry out high speed low level bombing

How will be matched against terrain mapping / avoidance mode in mirage 2005.. @Picdelamirand-oil

Elta wanted a bigger deal

So we expanded the AESA order for
83 LCA MK1 A plus 54 JAGUARS

They give us many things

So there must be a quid pro quo

Something new and lethal

AESA will make Jaguars more effective
For Both Air to Air and Air to Ground role

Long back read one of the precondition for aesa sales is one more platform should be integrated.

All that we have where we can put radar of choice is Jaguar and Lca.

We were discussing how this condition will reduce Uttam numbers..

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

What is the usage of AESA radar for jaguar? Rather that money could have been used in MK1A.

AESA for Jaguars can be used like this

For example A PACK of 4 to 6 Jaguars are tasked with blowing up a Pakistani asset
Which is being protected by 4 JF 17s

Now Jaguars can fire their DERBY missile as they are equipped with AESA

They can also be armed with Anti Radiation Missiles to destroy ground Radars

The Pakistani JF 17s will run away and the Jaguars can dive to carry out a high speed low level bombing

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

We were discussing how this condition will reduce Uttam numbers..

Uttam is our radar , We can even try to use it for Su 30 along with All Tejas Variants

Right now it is getting installed in a LSP Tejas for its First flight

So you can easily assume it will take Full 3 more years for getting FOC

For example the current Tejas Multi Mode Elta Hybrid Radar ( Pulse Doppler )was first installed in 2010

Now we are getting FOC capabilities in 2020

MK 1 A production will start in 3 years

And it will go on for 5 years

So we can use Uttam anytime it is fully ready and operational

 

[_Anonymous_]

wear & tear compared to what? The last batch is as new as 2004.

It's 16 years today. Are you suggesting those engines are brand new? What was the re engining of the Jaguars all about then?

 

[Ashwin]

It's 16 years today. Are you suggesting those engines are brand new? What was the re engining of the Jaguars all about then?

That means at least 14 more left. A new plane comes with a new engine. The platform gained weight overtime with DARIN upgrades thus the need for higher thrust.

 

[_Anonymous_]

That means at least 14 more left. A new plane comes with a new engine. The platform gained weight overtime with DARIN upgrades thus the need for higher thrust.

We seem to be discussing everything except what matters.I think I posed a simple query. Is the current power plant of the Jaguar in a position to cater to the power requirements of the AESA radar apart from catering to all the other upgrades under DARIN - III & otherwise ?

 

[randomradio]

Better to bring another advertisement like Stealth MMRCA 1.0 , call all contestants like we did in MMRCA 1.0, learn about design and technology and implement in AMCA
For example, we learnt the design from Grippen and now we are implementing it in MK2.

That didn't happen. And Gripen isn't unique either.

It also include manufacturing of GaS RT modules. So, it is now confirmed that 2052 aesa of jaguar has GaS RT module.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1223565051010830337

It was known since the beginning that the Jaguar will have GaAs modules.

 

[randomradio]

What is the usage of AESA radar for jaguar? Rather that money could have been used in MK1A.

It provides capabilities that didn't exist before. Especially when it comes to dealing with SAMs and armoured columns that can be on the move.

 

[randomradio]

It also include manufacturing of GaS RT modules. So, it is now confirmed that 2052 aesa of jaguar has GaS RT module.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1223565051010830337

Elta wanted a bigger deal

So we expanded the AESA order for
83 LCA MK1 A plus 54 JAGUARS

It's 24 radars from ELTA and 54 license built. So that's 78 in all for the Jaguars.

83 LCA MK1 A

73 Mk1A actually. The remaining 10 are trainers and will have DRDO's MMR instead. Of course, there will be spare radars as well.

Anyway, this means the IAF is finally operating a fighter jet with an AESA radar. Technically, we did receive the Rafale back in 2019, although we are not operationally using it yet. China received AESA equipped J-10C and J-20 in 2018 and J-11B in 2019.

 

[The Tashkent files]

It's 24 radars from ELTA and 54 license built. So that's 78 in all for the Jaguars.



73 Mk1A actually. The remaining 10 are trainers and will have DRDO's MMR instead. Of course, there will be spare radars as well.

Anyway, this means the IAF is finally operating a fighter jet with an AESA radar. Technically, we did receive the Rafale back in 2019, although we are not operationally using it yet. China received AESA equipped J-10C and J-20 in 2018 and J-11B in 2019.

Sir, AESA 2052 confirmed to have Gas. But I'm still confused about UTTAM TR modules, GaS or GaN. However, it is now cleared that TOT under 2052 AESA radar deal is very deep and include even software development. So, UTTAM is not going to face any developmental problems like what happen with pulse doppler radar of Tejas. One more thing is that TOT also include different antenna formations, so scalable variant of UTTAM will be for sure. May be a variant for MKI will be possible.

 

[Ashwin]

We seem to be discussing everything except what matters.I think I posed a simple query. Is the current power plant of the Jaguar in a position to cater to the power requirements of the AESA radar apart from catering to all the other upgrades under DARIN - III & otherwise ?

The answer is obvious when HAL has already flown prototypes now going to production. ELTA 2052 is scalable, The number of T/R modules could be less according to requirements.

It's 24 radars from ELTA and 54 license built. So that's 78 in all for the Jaguars.

Any source?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

We seem to be discussing everything except what matters.I think I posed a simple query. Is the current power plant of the Jaguar in a position to cater to the power requirements of the AESA radar apart from catering to all the other upgrades under DARIN - III & otherwise ?

Sir ji , Jaguar is NOT a fighter

Those Air to Air Missiles are just for long range Shooting which AESA will make possible

The engine power is crucial when plane has to maneuver and fight its way out of a bad situation

Then Instantaneous Turn Rate and STR are important

Avionics don't consume much power

Here a pack of 4 to 6 Darin 3 Jaguars
With a limited payload will climb high
Shoot its AAMs on enemy planes gaurding An area , Fire Anti Radiation missiles on SAMS , Then dive Fast and low to drop Bombs on the Target
And Run back to base

Jaguars have good internal fuel capacity
And are useful for low level bombing

And we are short of Airframes so we are carrying them on

 

[randomradio]

Sir, AESA 2052 confirmed to have Gas. But I'm still confused about UTTAM TR modules, GaS or GaN. However, it is now cleared that TOT under 2052 AESA radar deal is very deep and include even software development. So, UTTAM is not going to face any developmental problems like what happen with pulse doppler radar of Tejas. One more thing is that TOT also include different antenna formations, so scalable variant of UTTAM will be for sure. May be a variant for MKI will be possible.

Uttam is GaAs in prototype form but the production version will be GaN, possibly using Vivaldi antennas.

What HAL is getting is limited, and is meant to support the fleet that will carry the radar. After all we are talking about 140 jets between Jaguar and LCA. Also LCA Mk1 carries an Indian radar, not Israeli.

Uttam may be a possibility in phase 2 of the upgrade program. But by our own procurement rules, the first choice is always the OEM, ie, Russia, unless the Russians cannot meet requirements. So any other radar on the MKI is always a second choice.

 

[randomradio]

Any source?

It's possible I'm referring to LCA Mk1A. I seem to have combined the 24+8 ordered for LCA Mk1A and combined that with HAL's other expected order for Jaguars.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

It's possible I'm referring to LCA Mk1A. I seem to have combined the 24+8 ordered for LCA Mk1A and combined that with HAL's other expected order for Jaguars.

Can we use SAAW as an Anti Radiation Missile

 

[randomradio]

If the re engining of the Jaguars are ruled out & the present engines are subject to de rating thanks to wear & tear apart from the number of years of service put in , how will these AESA radars be powered? Something doesn't quite add up. Are these radars for the Jaguars or the Mk1a?

The Jaguar already powers the EL/M-2032 in the marine versions, so the power requirement will pretty much be the same.

 

[randomradio]

Can we use SAAW as an Anti Radiation Missile

Nope. The seeker head will be too small. Also, for ARM you need a high speed design, like HARM and ALARM that do mach 2+, whereas KH-31P does mach 4.5. SAAW does less than mach 1.

 

[screambowl]

That didn't happen. And Gripen isn't unique either.

The canards + the wings if you concentrate on the design of LCA/MWF MK2 it's more like Gripen ng. I am optimist that they have learnt or extracted something from the contest.

 

[randomradio]

The canards + the wings if you concentrate on the design of LCA/MWF MK2 it's more like Gripen ng. I am optimist that they have learnt or extracted something from the contest.

Whatever information came out of MMRCA would be under IAF, and at best it will help them create new requirements. It wouldn't help ADA design a Gripen like fighter jet.