The problem is high MLU cost and HALs slow rate.
Similar to Mirage. Who would have thought?
Mirage 2000H, MiG-29UPG, Jaguar DARIN III - Medium Multirole Aircraft of IAF
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
1) Comparing a single engine and a twin one is not fair.
2) lack only one information : how many flight hours each fleet?
Agreed. But we need to take into consideration that we do need more aircrafts quickly. 40 million USD for 15 years delivered at rate of 1 per month, seems fine to me. We need to find a balance outright new purchases and 2nd hand/leases so as to maintain the minimum numbers.
I would still say 20-25 Mirages raising another squadron while also replacing some attrition at Gwalior is worth investing.
Did you have all the info when you made the assumption about Mig-29?
Looks like they are already committed the same amount for Refurbished Migs. So i wont keep the hopes up.
Yes. In a single accident involving hanger collapse....
We crash our planes even when our pilots are not in the planes.
So, were these planes scrapped or repaired? Somehow this is the first time I'm reading of it. Any references?Yes. In a single accident involving hanger collapse....
The day the sky fell down (in Gwalior)
Category: The Last Quarter: 1972-99Last Updated: Friday, 18 October 2019 13:32Written by Gp Capt N A MoitraHits: 9409
Maharajpur, where IAF Station, Gwalior has taken root, had a small 1.3 km runway, 01-19. The IAF took it over and built No 2 Base Repair Depot (BRD) around it, renaming the site AF Station Maharajpur, Gwalior. Two hangars were built to house HT-2/Harvard aircraft. The HT-2 could not be used on that runway because of strong cross-winds. A new but short 1800 m runway was built, 06/24, and, in time, an Avro Sqn moved in (11 Sqn).
When the Mirage deal was being negotiated, there was an urgent need to extend 06/24 runway to 2.7km and build taxy-tracks and other infrastructure. No 2 BRD became 40 Wg AF in 1982, to house not only the 2 upcoming Mirage Sqns, but also 11 Sqn and other ancillary units.
.
One of the two hangars had been enlarged and strengthened to accept the number of Mirage 2000 ac it had been reworked for. When the first Mirage 2000 aircraft landed, the runway had been extended to 2600m, but without an overrun. The tarmac could accept only six aircraft.
By the end of the year, matters had improved greatly and full-fledged operations could be undertaken. 7 Sqn had also been raised.
On 01 Jan 1986, 1 Sqn was formed, with eight aircraft. The hangar was partly usable, as it had been designed for HT-2 & Harvard ac. Expansion work was slow, as the infrastructure of a digital age aircraft and its complex equipment and armament was also to come up rapidly.
Wg Cdr SU Apte took over command of 1 Sqn on 23 May 1988.
Reconstruction works.
The final part of reconstructing the 2nd hangar was replacing the old Asbestos roof with a new one, timed for May-June 1989. The Agency in charge of such work was under pressure to complete this task and move on. May is a very hot month in Gwalior, with temperature reaching 40°C by 0900.
The Asbestos sheets were being replaced one for one. The procedure was to stack 6 new Asbestos sheets on the roof, remove 6 old sheets one by one, bring each one down to the salvage yard and then replace it with a new sheet. This was a time consuming affair, and the workers were sweating by 0900. They then decided on a short cut. They started taking two dozen new Asbestos sheets at a time and stacked them on the roof. They did not send the removed sheets down, but stacked them too on the roof. In two days, that 2 dozen new Asbestos sheets became 20 and the pile of old sheets became 20 dozen too.
For that 600 new tubelights had to be added, which was done speedily. That's over 2 tonnes, when you add the weight of the twin lamp-holders and the piping.
On 24 May, two supervisors climbed on to the roof-The Last Straw! The Camel’s Back broke at 0945.
The tarmac facing front of 1 Sqn AF hangar collapsed with a thunderclap, as 7 Sqn aircraft (ac) were being towed into their hangar. The OAT was 44°C. Day flying had been called off and 14 aircraft of 1 Sqn had been pushed into the hangar for protection. The northern end had caved in and a steel girder fell on one ac, damaging it considerably. It’s twin girder flipped sideways into the Sqn garden, while a smaller beam settled gradually onto the spine of another ac parked directly below. The entire area was sealed off and a protective blanket of personnel from Nos 1 & 7 Squadron cordoned off the hangar.
12 aircraft were towed out of the hangar from the southern end. Six were undamaged while another six had superficial damage, mainly ruptured skins. Local media was blocked but obtained info from the civilians working at the airbase. There was unsubstantiated gossip in the local media next day and a line or two in mainstream media, but unnecessary chatter had been cut down.
Dassault technicians and engineers reached the site 44 hours later. They required heavy and tall lifting devices. Winches and cranes were requisitioned from the Indian Railways workshop at Gwalior.
The last 2 aircraft were extricated using the cranes to lift the girder off the severely damaged ac and the beam off the second. The team assessed the damage to all 8 aircraft and pronounced them recoverable, 6 on site starting immediately and 2 put away till each and every part was examined and tested. They found, in the case of the severely damaged ac, that certain sections had to be imported from France.
The total cost of repair came to approx $2 million, a mere bagatelle.
The last of the two badly damaged Mirages is extricated out by the Madras Engineering Group soldiers along with AF and Railway perssonel. Photo Courtesy : AVM S Gopalakrishnan via Wg Cdr Raju Srinivasan
On Friday, 11 August that year, just 80 days after the accident, all 8 damaged aircraft carried out a flypast, led, of course by Apte.
I was tasked in March 1990 with carrying out a Board of Officers to propose a plan to build a new hangar, which took me all of two days.
The day the sky fell down (in Gwalior)
Back in the year 1989, a leading newspaper published a sensational story about a Hangar Collapse in Gwalior and how that resulted in half a dozen Mirage 2000 fighters being badly damaged or written off. The story created a furor and the Ministry o...
Thanks for the reference but we didn't lose any of these aircraft. From what's been reported we managed to salvage each & every of these aircraft after repairs at a significant cost though.The day the sky fell down (in Gwalior)
Category: The Last Quarter: 1972-99Last Updated: Friday, 18 October 2019 13:32Written by Gp Capt N A MoitraHits: 9409
Back in the year 1989, a leading newspaper published a sensational story about a Hangar Collapse in Gwalior and how that resulted in half a dozen Mirage 2000 fighters being badly damaged or written off. The story created a furor and the Ministry of Defence was forced to issue a rejoinder discreditng the news report. Gp Capt Noel A Moitra, VM 12931 F(P) was at Gwalior at that time. For the first time in thirty years, he writes about the 'incident' in detail.
Maharajpur, where IAF Station, Gwalior has taken root, had a small 1.3 km runway, 01-19. The IAF took it over and built No 2 Base Repair Depot (BRD) around it, renaming the site AF Station Maharajpur, Gwalior. Two hangars were built to house HT-2/Harvard aircraft. The HT-2 could not be used on that runway because of strong cross-winds. A new but short 1800 m runway was built, 06/24, and, in time, an Avro Sqn moved in (11 Sqn).
When the Mirage deal was being negotiated, there was an urgent need to extend 06/24 runway to 2.7km and build taxy-tracks and other infrastructure. No 2 BRD became 40 Wg AF in 1982, to house not only the 2 upcoming Mirage Sqns, but also 11 Sqn and other ancillary units.
.
One of the two hangars had been enlarged and strengthened to accept the number of Mirage 2000 ac it had been reworked for. When the first Mirage 2000 aircraft landed, the runway had been extended to 2600m, but without an overrun. The tarmac could accept only six aircraft.
By the end of the year, matters had improved greatly and full-fledged operations could be undertaken. 7 Sqn had also been raised.
On 01 Jan 1986, 1 Sqn was formed, with eight aircraft. The hangar was partly usable, as it had been designed for HT-2 & Harvard ac. Expansion work was slow, as the infrastructure of a digital age aircraft and its complex equipment and armament was also to come up rapidly.
Wg Cdr SU Apte took over command of 1 Sqn on 23 May 1988.
Reconstruction works.
The final part of reconstructing the 2nd hangar was replacing the old Asbestos roof with a new one, timed for May-June 1989. The Agency in charge of such work was under pressure to complete this task and move on. May is a very hot month in Gwalior, with temperature reaching 40°C by 0900.
The Asbestos sheets were being replaced one for one. The procedure was to stack 6 new Asbestos sheets on the roof, remove 6 old sheets one by one, bring each one down to the salvage yard and then replace it with a new sheet. This was a time consuming affair, and the workers were sweating by 0900. They then decided on a short cut. They started taking two dozen new Asbestos sheets at a time and stacked them on the roof. They did not send the removed sheets down, but stacked them too on the roof. In two days, that 2 dozen new Asbestos sheets became 20 and the pile of old sheets became 20 dozen too.
For that 600 new tubelights had to be added, which was done speedily. That's over 2 tonnes, when you add the weight of the twin lamp-holders and the piping.
On 24 May, two supervisors climbed on to the roof-The Last Straw! The Camel’s Back broke at 0945.
The tarmac facing front of 1 Sqn AF hangar collapsed with a thunderclap, as 7 Sqn aircraft (ac) were being towed into their hangar. The OAT was 44°C. Day flying had been called off and 14 aircraft of 1 Sqn had been pushed into the hangar for protection. The northern end had caved in and a steel girder fell on one ac, damaging it considerably. It’s twin girder flipped sideways into the Sqn garden, while a smaller beam settled gradually onto the spine of another ac parked directly below. The entire area was sealed off and a protective blanket of personnel from Nos 1 & 7 Squadron cordoned off the hangar.
12 aircraft were towed out of the hangar from the southern end. Six were undamaged while another six had superficial damage, mainly ruptured skins. Local media was blocked but obtained info from the civilians working at the airbase. There was unsubstantiated gossip in the local media next day and a line or two in mainstream media, but unnecessary chatter had been cut down.
Dassault technicians and engineers reached the site 44 hours later. They required heavy and tall lifting devices. Winches and cranes were requisitioned from the Indian Railways workshop at Gwalior.
The last 2 aircraft were extricated using the cranes to lift the girder off the severely damaged ac and the beam off the second. The team assessed the damage to all 8 aircraft and pronounced them recoverable, 6 on site starting immediately and 2 put away till each and every part was examined and tested. They found, in the case of the severely damaged ac, that certain sections had to be imported from France.
The total cost of repair came to approx $2 million, a mere bagatelle.
The last of the two badly damaged Mirages is extricated out by the Madras Engineering Group soldiers along with AF and Railway perssonel. Photo Courtesy : AVM S Gopalakrishnan via Wg Cdr Raju Srinivasan
On Friday, 11 August that year, just 80 days after the accident, all 8 damaged aircraft carried out a flypast, led, of course by Apte.
I was tasked in March 1990 with carrying out a Board of Officers to propose a plan to build a new hangar, which took me all of two days.
The day the sky fell down (in Gwalior)
Back in the year 1989, a leading newspaper published a sensational story about a Hangar Collapse in Gwalior and how that resulted in half a dozen Mirage 2000 fighters being badly damaged or written off. The story created a furor and the Ministry o...www.bharat-rakshak.com
What I know is we bought last 10 mirage 2000s to compensate for the lost mirages. I think 1 was lost in republic day parade also after which single engine planes were stopped from being part of republic day parade flypast planes until Tejas was allowed for flypast.....
Very unlikely. CAG would have never let something like this to cover up. Last 10 was ordered when they were sure that there won't be any big license production order.
Correct, but not exactly our standard. UAE mirage airframes are as old as ours. Without overhaul we are not going to accept it.
UAE's first batch airframes which they offered to Egypt had their overhaul in 2005-6 i think. So yes, they do have the Radar and Weapons integrated but their airframes and engines will need overhaul.
The Qatar ones are actually quite new compared to UAE's and have flow much less. Investing in them is more feasible.
12 airframes from Qatar and maybe a dozen more from French stocks should be looked. That will be good for another squadron.
I am not in favour of much more numbers because 20 or so Mirage 2000 and 20 or so Mig29s can be bought overhauled and put in service in next 2-3 years.
After that we are better of putting the finances to quicken the pace of work on MWF and AMCA. And MK1A will start coming too.
Yes. In a single accident involving hanger collapse....
I remember , long back when a Mirage 2000 crashed, I posted that Mirage 2000 had a past history of crashing in pairs.. After that another mirage 2000 crashed, like I said..
Next at HAL before aero India..
These are those crashes I could remember..
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
Read more At:
www.aninews.in
Re-engine program for Jaguar DARIN III from an American company officially shelved. HAL itself will supply some engine related updates and support.
Read more At:
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
New Delhi [India], May 19 (ANI): Amid PM Modi's government push for indigenisation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved three major acquisition projects worth over Rs 8,000 crore.
www.aninews.in
Re-engine program for Jaguar DARIN III from an American company officially shelved. HAL itself will supply some engine related updates and support.
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
Read more At:
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
New Delhi [India], May 19 (ANI): Amid PM Modi's government push for indigenisation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved three major acquisition projects worth over Rs 8,000 crore.
Re-engine program for Jaguar DARIN III from an American company officially shelved. HAL itself will supply some engine related updates and support.
2. Pilatus 38 samples cancelled
3. Hawk additional squad cancelled
--------
What will be the engine related update by HAL that ll see through the Jaguars?
I have no idea on it.
But HAL also has access to a more modern derivation of the engine family in BAE HAWKs it assembled. Maybe some improvements from it.
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
Read more At:
IAF shelves 3 major acquisition projects for Make in India, other reasons
New Delhi [India], May 19 (ANI): Amid PM Modi's government push for indigenisation, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has shelved three major acquisition projects worth over Rs 8,000 crore.
Re-engine program for Jaguar DARIN III from an American company officially shelved. HAL itself will supply some engine related updates and support.
Weird that the 38 trainers were shelved, but IAF did not increase the HTT-40 inductions by 38 more. Probably will end up as options.
I think its becoz the DAC clearance then was only for 68. A new DAC clearance for 106 aircrafts should happen before signing the HTT40 contract.
Yep, but I don't think it's a problem for an Indian made aircraft. New clearance can be given quite quickly since the trainer is still in development. But the same thing is possible as options also, do it doesn't make much of a difference. As long as Pilatus is out, HAL is assured of getting the last 38.