MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 32 13.4%

  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 187 78.2%

  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 4 1.7%

  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Total voters
    239
Lolwa said:
How exactly rbe 2 is comparable to apg 81 ??
Range? Detection? Apg 81 is said to be superior to even apg 77 in some areas and you are comparing rbe 2 aesa. You sound as bad as the people who peddle f16's and amriki maal for every problem. Rafale is a good aircraft but it has its drawback. Plz stop defending European maal just for the sake of it. The physics just doesn't allow rbe2 to be as powerful as the apg 81 it just doesn't. Kisi aur ka choona lagao...
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The declarations of the French Ministry of Defence allow the range of the EASA RBE2 radar to be calculated. Indeed the RBE2 PESA has a range roughly equivalent to the RDY Radar of the Mirage 2000 which is 80 km on a 1m2 target. And the CEAM experimentation center which tested the RBE2 AESA declared that its range was doubled compared to the RBE2 PESA which thus gives 160 km on a target of 1m2.
Now I propose you to compare with the APG 77 and the APG 81.

20120101060937.png

You can see on this graph that for a target of 1m2 the APG 77 has a range of 110 Nm which makes 203 km and that the APG 81 has a range of 80 Nm or 148 km. So the RBE2 AESA is in between the two Radar.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Curiously @BMD has stopped arguing in this topic since Eurofighter announced a digital stealth capability. :D

Eurofighter Typhoon - Updates and Discussions

It's normally called an exciter signal though. I was being facetious. You don't have to try being facetious . You're a natural.
www.strategicfront.org www.strategicfront.org
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I see the usually very loquacious @BMD still hasn't responded. Nowadays, he's pretty subdued about the aftermath of Brexit too. You think reality is sinking in. Gradually... One step at a time.
 
Sathya said:
Hi, leaving rbe vs apg.. aside..
Is long range of radar , good or bad?
I mean what good it ll do if the range of radar is 500km but missile is just 200km, won't it alert the enemy aircraft.? If the enemy is in stealth, won't it invite trouble?

Can we control the radar range?
Retracting or extending as we like?
Click to expand...
Isn't that what happened with the mki on 27th? The plane with the larger radar but shorter missile got locked by the aircraft with a weaker radar and longer stick. The problem with the f22/35 vs rafale discussion is the f35 will see the rafale even with its spectra even though the distance will reduce because of its rcs . So first shot advantage will always be with f35/22.
The pros here might know about reducing radar range. The only thing I know is you can switch on and off your radar.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The declarations of the French Ministry of Defence allow the range of the EASA RBE2 radar to be calculated. Indeed the RBE2 PESA has a range roughly equivalent to the RDY Radar of the Mirage 2000 which is 80 km on a 1m2 target. And the CEAM experimentation center which tested the RBE2 AESA declared that its range was doubled compared to the RBE2 PESA which thus gives 160 km on a target of 1m2.
Now I propose you to compare with the APG 77 and the APG 81.

20120101060937.png

You can see on this graph that for a target of 1m2 the APG 77 has a range of 110 Nm which makes 203 km and that the APG 81 has a range of 80 Nm or 148 km. So the RBE2 AESA is in between the two Radar.
Click to expand...
The little RBE2 AA is more powerful than the APG-77 with twice as many modules. You heard it here first kids. The French would sell you a turd straight from their butt and tell you it's organic chocolate.:ROFLMAO:
 
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Reactions: Hydra
Ankit Kumar said:
eurasiantimes.com

Why Indian Air Force Continues To Reject Russian MiG-35 'Advanced Jets'?

With India looking to add more firepower to its air force, the Russian MiG-35s are one of the key contenders for the Indian Air Force. However, western experts have called the Russian MiG-35 jets a ‘dead duck’. When Rafale Jets ‘Shot-Down’ Eurofighter Typhoons To Win Lucrative Indian Fighter Jet...
eurasiantimes.com eurasiantimes.com
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The article is quite misleading.

The aircraft lacks domestic and export orders because it's not ready yet. RuAF has shown interest in procuring at least 170 jets in batches of 30 each. Egypt bought Mig-29s because the Mig-35 wasn't ready, not because they were not interested. But the Egyptian Mig-29s are as close to the Mig-35 as possible, minus the AESA radar.

It's 80% of the cost of a Flanker only due to its lower weight and cheaper engine, it's the avionics that brings costs on par with heavier jets. But it's apparently much, much cheaper than the Flanker in operation costs, and that's the primary cost advantage of a medium weight fighter. Even the Russians are looking for a cheap option to operate alongside their expensive Flankers. The Mig-35 has gone through a lot of maintenance improvements even over the regular Mig-29M.

India rejected the jet during MMRCA 'cause it was old (the same reason why it will get rejected again) and was only a prototype (India was only interested in operational aircraft). The Mig-35 from MMRCA was completely different from today's Mig-35, it was merely a Mig-29M with SMT electronics and an AESA radar. The airframe, engine and avionics are all different now. Even then, the jet will get rejected 'cause it's nearly 50 years old in terms of design.

However, even if India doesn't buy it, the Russians will most definitely find some buyers for it over the next 5-10 years. But no one's gonna buy it if the Russians themselves do not. And it's definitely not a good idea to dismiss its capabilities. It presents the same sort of threat the newly upgraded Teens do after all, and for most countries that's more than enough.
 
Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1294590367447179264
Is this true? The pricing is insane

62 billion for 66 f16 jets. I fear mmrca 2 not gonna see any light.
If a mediocre fighter luke f16 is costing a whopping 62 billion only god know how much rafale or f15 is gonna costs us
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It is certainly tawaneese dollar!
While the price of the 66 new models is unknown, Taiwanese media earlier valued the deal at between US$7.8 billion and US$8 billion, and said the jets were likely to be ready by late 2020. That would put the cost for a single aircraft in the range of US$118 million to US$121 million.
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www.scmp.com

Taiwan’s plan to buy 66 F-16V fighter jets from US ‘still on track’

Taipei says deal is proceeding despite reports Washington had shelved it pending its trade negotiations with Beijing.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
 
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Hydra said:
N

If thats the case then it will be less than 3 billion for 66. No way it becom this much cheep
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Fly away cost of a new built F16 should be anywhere between 75-85 million USD depending upon some specs. By that figure alone the cost of deal will cross 5 billion USD. Rest cost will be weapons.
As Taiwan already has 100+ F16 which are also being upgraded, other costs like that of training/infrastructure won't be required.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Fly away cost of a new built F16 should be anywhere between 75-85 million USD depending upon some specs. By that figure alone the cost of deal will cross 5 billion USD. Rest cost will be weapons.
As Taiwan already has 100+ F16 which are also being upgraded, other costs like that of training/infrastructure won't be required.
Click to expand...
Yeah, sounds logical.
 
Hydra said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1294590367447179264
Is this true? The pricing is insane

62 billion for 66 f16 jets. I fear mmrca 2 not gonna see any light.
If a mediocre fighter luke f16 is costing a whopping 62 billion only god know how much rafale or f15 is gonna costs us
Click to expand...

Picdelamirand-oil said:
It is certainly tawaneese dollar!

www.scmp.com

Taiwan’s plan to buy 66 F-16V fighter jets from US ‘still on track’

Taipei says deal is proceeding despite reports Washington had shelved it pending its trade negotiations with Beijing.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
Click to expand...

Ankit Kumar said:
The program cost is of around 8 billion USD.
Click to expand...

Turns out it is US $62B, and it's a number of different contracts.

www.defense.gov

Contracts for August 14, 2020

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.
www.defense.gov
Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $62,000,000,000 ten-year, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ), fixed-price-incentive contract for new production of F-16 Foreign Military Sale (FMS) aircraft. The total value for the initial delivery order is $4,941,105,246 and will be awarded on the same date. The initial delivery order is for 90 aircraft, including both the pre-priced recurring core configuration costs at $2,862,797,674 and the engineering change proposal/undefinitized contract action for the non-recurring costs not-to-exceed $2,078,307,572 obligated at approximately $1,018,370,710.

The number of F-16s are unknown. But if initial orders alone are for 90 jets, then it's likely to be a giant order. It's also possible the deal includes upgrades.

Taiwan and Morocco are confirmed for the 90 jets, with 24 for Morocco. If upgrades are included, then the numbers make sense. For example, Greece needs 85 jets upgraded, Taiwan needs 60+ jets and so on. I'm sure upgrades are included in this deal.

The deal has also been done in such a way that all the participant countries that are buying new jets can simply keep ordering as many jets as they want without having to go back to Washington for approval. This is of particular benefit to Taiwan, so if the Democrats come to power, they cannot simply reject more F-16s for Taiwan.
 
randomradio said:
Turns out it is US $62B, and it's a number of different contracts.

www.defense.gov

Contracts for August 14, 2020

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.
www.defense.gov
Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, has been awarded a $62,000,000,000 ten-year, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ), fixed-price-incentive contract for new production of F-16 Foreign Military Sale (FMS) aircraft. The total value for the initial delivery order is $4,941,105,246 and will be awarded on the same date. The initial delivery order is for 90 aircraft, including both the pre-priced recurring core configuration costs at $2,862,797,674 and the engineering change proposal/undefinitized contract action for the non-recurring costs not-to-exceed $2,078,307,572 obligated at approximately $1,018,370,710.

The number of F-16s are unknown. But if initial orders alone are for 90 jets, then it's likely to be a giant order. It's also possible the deal includes upgrades.

Taiwan and Morocco are confirmed for the 90 jets, with 24 for Morocco. If upgrades are included, then the numbers make sense. For example, Greece needs 85 jets upgraded, Taiwan needs 60+ jets and so on. I'm sure upgrades are included in this deal.

The deal has also been done in such a way that all the participant countries that are buying new jets can simply keep ordering as many jets as they want without having to go back to Washington for approval. This is of particular benefit to Taiwan, so if the Democrats come to power, they cannot simply reject more F-16s for Taiwan.
Click to expand...


What is the production rate of F-16Vs by USA?
 
randomradio said:
Anything they want. Right now it's probably 20-30.

But upgrades happen in overhaul facilities, and there's plenty of those around all over the world.
Click to expand...
rockstarIN said:
Is it 20-30 per year or month?
Click to expand...
The Bahrain orders are under assembly at a rate of 1 aircraft per month. As these two concrete deals are signed the rate will increase.

The original facility has been given up for F35 production, the newer one is smaller but still can produce upto 4 aircrafts per month if orders are there, as the supply chain remains strong and has idle capacity.
 
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