MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[randomradio]

Is it 20-30 per year or month?

It's per year, but they have the capacity to increase it to per month also, but that's not going to happen anyway. Really, when it comes to the Americans, there's no limit. They can produce all that you can afford and more. IIRC, their highest production rate was 400 per year.

Why it matters that Lockheed Martin is set to launch production of F-16s in Greenville

The first Lockheed Martin F-16 jet should be produced by December 2021 at the South Carolina Technology and Aviation Center.

www.greenvilleonline.com

"That can ebb and flow," Losinger said of demand for F-16s. "But it's significant and sustained, too. Beyond the customers I just mentioned, and frankly for larger orders, it will keep the production line hopping."

There's no simple answer to your question actually.

The good news is we will be making the wings. The 90 jets will at least need 180 wings.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

It's per year, but they have the capacity to increase it to per month also, but that's not going to happen anyway. Really, when it comes to the Americans, there's no limit. They can produce all that you can afford and more. IIRC, their highest production rate was 400 per year.

Why it matters that Lockheed Martin is set to launch production of F-16s in Greenville

The first Lockheed Martin F-16 jet should be produced by December 2021 at the South Carolina Technology and Aviation Center.

www.greenvilleonline.com

"That can ebb and flow," Losinger said of demand for F-16s. "But it's significant and sustained, too. Beyond the customers I just mentioned, and frankly for larger orders, it will keep the production line hopping."

There's no simple answer to your question actually.

The good news is we will be making the wings. The 90 jets will at least need 180 wings.

With Lockheed Martin having enough orders for F 16s , they will not push for sales to PAF

That is good for us , otherwise China can easily finance their acquisition of F 16s

 

[randomradio]

With Lockheed Martin having enough orders for F 16s , they will not push for sales to PAF

That is good for us , otherwise China can easily finance their acquisition of F 16s

Under Trump, no. Under Biden, only he knows.

Even if the US does end up selling F-16s to the PAF, we need plenty of next gen Rafales and MWFs in order to offset that sale. Whatever we have planned is a better bet than what Pakistan can buy. So it's not a problem in terms of capabilities. But we should be worried if the PAF gets jets in the name of foreign aid.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Under Trump, no. Under Biden, only he knows.

Even if the US does end up selling F-16s to the PAF, we need plenty of next gen Rafales and MWFs in order to offset that sale. Whatever we have planned is a better bet than what Pakistan can buy. So it's not a problem in terms of capabilities. But we should be worried if the PAF gets jets in the name of foreign aid.

China would love to increase pressure on India through Pakistan

And since Pakistan can still buy Western weapons , China has to only throw a few billions to increase our problems

Pakistan can fool the US in the name of Afghanistan cooperation

 

[Nikhil]

Rafale Jets Not A ‘Game Changer’; India Still Needs To Catch-Up With China & Pakistan

Its true "quantity has its own quality".

Poorly written article by Charlton.... except for few F 16 all Pakistani aircraft are junk. Even there most advance F 16 are now behind upgraded MIG-29 & mirage 2000 forget SU 30mki which will be having there own upgrade soon....only thing saving Pakistan is there AWACS & our lack of stealth option for a surprise & very long range BVRAAM ( meteor & R 37 will deal with this problem though ). Astra is in production and will be superior to AIM 120c5 & PL 12....as for PL 15....take whatever Chinese say with a pinch of salt. I will take russian maal over Chinese anyday.
There is nothing in league of RBE 2 AESA , meteor in Chinese arsenal.
so here the IAF Arsenal 258 MKI , 50 mirage 2000, 80 MIG 29....all going for upgrade, along with 45 MIG 29K....5 Rafale with 29 more coming soon....all 4++ generation fighters and what does Pakistan has to counter them? 18 blk 50/52 along with junk fighter which is worse than Tejas. Pakistan probably may get a super star destroyer if PDF think tank analyst khafee is to be believed...but it's a big if.
Chinese have some what worthy Arsenal but we all know....quality one is all russian.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Poorly written article by Charlton.... except for few F 16 all Pakistani aircraft are junk. Even there most advance F 16 are now behind upgraded MIG-29 & mirage 2000 forget SU 30mki which will be having there own upgrade soon....only thing saving Pakistan is there AWACS & our lack of stealth option for a surprise & very long range BVRAAM ( meteor & R 37 will deal with this problem though ). Astra is in production and will be superior to AIM 120c5 & PL 12....as for PL 15....take whatever Chinese say with a pinch of salt. I will take russian maal over Chinese anyday.
There is nothing in league of RBE 2 AESA , meteor in Chinese arsenal.
so here the IAF Arsenal 258 MKI , 50 mirage 2000, 80 MIG 29....all going for upgrade, along with 45 MIG 29K....5 Rafale with 29 more coming soon....all 4++ generation fighters and what does Pakistan has to counter them? 18 blk 50/52 along with junk fighter which is worse than Tejas. Pakistan probably may get a super star destroyer if PDF think tank analyst khafee is to be believed...but it's a big if.
Chinese have some what worthy Arsenal but we all know....quality one is all russian.

Our problem is that it will.take a lot of time for IAF to get 36 Rafales and S 400
Fully Operational

While our MOD can take their own sweet time to finalize their deals , the Enemies
Will NOT give you Time to prepare

 

[Hydra]

Poorly written article by Charlton.... except for few F 16 all Pakistani aircraft are junk. Even there most advance F 16 are now behind upgraded MIG-29 & mirage 2000 forget SU 30mki which will be having there own upgrade soon....only thing saving Pakistan is there AWACS & our lack of stealth option for a surprise & very long range BVRAAM ( meteor & R 37 will deal with this problem though ). Astra is in production and will be superior to AIM 120c5 & PL 12....as for PL 15....take whatever Chinese say with a pinch of salt. I will take russian maal over Chinese anyday.
There is nothing in league of RBE 2 AESA , meteor in Chinese arsenal.
so here the IAF Arsenal 258 MKI , 50 mirage 2000, 80 MIG 29....all going for upgrade, along with 45 MIG 29K....5 Rafale with 29 more coming soon....all 4++ generation fighters and what does Pakistan has to counter them? 18 blk 50/52 along with junk fighter which is worse than Tejas. Pakistan probably may get a super star destroyer if PDF think tank analyst khafee is to be believed...but it's a big if.
Chinese have some what worthy Arsenal but we all know....quality one is all russian.

So you thinks that 36 is enough for pakistan & china.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

So you thinks that 36 is enough for pakistan & china.

Yes they are , for the Time being Only

But as they acquire more high end
Platforms , we will also need more Rafales

 

[Nikhil]

Our problem is that it will.take a lot of time for IAF to get 36 Rafales and S 400
Fully Operational

While our MOD can take their own sweet time to finalize their deals , the Enemies
Will NOT give you Time to prepare

my reply was to a third grade article giving PAF some sort of advantage while claiming Chinese technology to be a marvel which it is not. The day Chinese mange to come even close to Russians in tech is the day i will concede.... until then it's all hot air.

So you thinks that 36 is enough for pakistan & china.

No that's why we are going for MMRCA 2.0 & AMCA, Tejas MK2. Rafale in south Asia context is sonay ki chidia. whole package can destroy half of PLAAF assets in western theatre in one operation alone....so just think what it will do to PAF.

 

[randomradio]

China would love to increase pressure on India through Pakistan

And since Pakistan can still buy Western weapons , China has to only throw a few billions to increase our problems

Pakistan can fool the US in the name of Afghanistan cooperation

If Iran uses the China-Iran deal to begin any major modernisation program, then Pak will get aid from the GCC, with the blessings of the US. So there's a possibility all parties will funnel money into Pakistan in order to counter Iran, and that will instead get pushed towards their anti-India modernisation. There's also a pretty good chance the US will force Pakistan to pick sides in the near future.

Whether Pakistan picks sides or chooses to balance relations, they are gonna get money from somewhere. Thankfully, they may not be able to get access to more modern tech than we have access to.

 

[Hydra]

Yes they are , for the Time being Only

But as they acquire more high end
Platforms , we will also need more Rafales

Against pakistan its adequate, against chinese a big no

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

my reply was to a third grade article giving PAF some sort of advantage while claiming Chinese technology to be a marvel which it is not. The day Chinese mange to come even close to Russians in tech is the day i will concede.... until then it's all hot air.

No that's why we are going for MMRCA 2.0 & AMCA, Tejas MK2. Rafale in south Asia context is sonay ki chidia. whole package can destroy half of PLAAF assets in western theatre in one operation alone....so just think what it will do to PAF.

Given the present situation
I wonder what the IAF top brass is
Right now Thinking , Or rather Regretting the delays in just about
Every deal , over the last decade

WHAT IF we had ....these must be the most used words in MOD these days

 

[Nikhil]

Rafale provide India a great platform. Technology wise it is a beast. Only US plane's are better. it has a beast of a radar even among AESA , superior EW system along with very powerful processing unit.
one of the best weapons arsenal out there....36 Rafale will rain hell on adversary period.

Given the present situation
I wonder what the IAF top brass is
Right now Thinking , Or rather Regretting the delays in just about
Every deal , over the last decade

WHAT IF we had ....these must be the most used words in MOD these days

time delaying tactics is not bad if we get superior product in the end. If Pakistan get bundar we don't need to spend huge chunk to counter it....cause they will always get money from middle East & china which we will never have. only real threat from China is J 20 & FC 31 if they deliver. India need to look for SU 57 down the line to replace SU 30MKI if problem plaguing it are overcomed & AMCA to replace all other fighters in our arsenal.
First lot are already under production with major improvement.

 

[Nikhil]

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

 

[Ankit Kumar]

View attachment 17261

View attachment 17259

View attachment 17260

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

If they offer it , with a working AESA solution. Then why not. Buy 36 or so in same config and then let local assembly of the same with uprated engines.

 

[Hydra]

View attachment 17261

View attachment 17259

View attachment 17260

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

I dont think IAF will opt for this, many hundreds of fingers will point against then for pulping back from this project in past.

 

[Lolwa]

View attachment 17261

View attachment 17259

View attachment 17260

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

We will buy it in the 2030 because amca will get delayed. And then again our incompetent government will start running helter skelter for fifth gen..
My personal wishlist if things go on is.
Another 54-72 rafale's g2g deal
114 mmrca f15ex
83 mk1a+ 120-240 MWF

150-200 amca if it's successful
100 NGF/tempest/su57 depending on whichever matures first and delay on amca.

 

[randomradio]

View attachment 17261

View attachment 17259

View attachment 17260

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

It's not finished development yet. IAF will wait until it's fully developed before making a decision. So that's a minimum of 2025 and possibly 2030 before an export version is made.

It won't meet MMRCA requirements due to its weight. It has to be procured in a different process parallel to the MRFA tender.

 

[AbRaj]

View attachment 17261

View attachment 17259

View attachment 17260

Holy s**t ...what about this for MMRCA 2.0.

@STEPHEN COHEN @Hydra @randomradio @Lolwa @Ankit Kumar

It’s natural successor of Su30mki HMRCA . I think we should wait till it’s maturation regarding stealth optimisations and engine development. Our Su30 are doing fine anyway and needing MLU.
There is no overlap between Su57(HMRCA)and AMCA(MMRCA)
There is no hurry for SU57 I.

We will buy it in the 2030 because amca will get delayed. And then again our incompetent government will start running helter skelter for fifth gen..
My personal wishlist if things go on is.
Another 54-72 rafale's g2g deal
114 mmrca f15ex
83 mk1a+ 120-240 MWF

150-200 amca if it's successful
100 NGF/tempest/su57 depending on whichever matures first and delay on amca.

LOLWA has a crush on F15Exxx

 

[Hydra]

Is the European Meteor Air-To-Air Missile Really the Best in the World?