Honestly, what we should be asking for is joint production with the US for the V-22. This single aircraft can change the way we handle our logistics.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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Honestly, what we should be asking for is joint production with the US for the V-22. This single aircraft can change the way we handle our logistics.
wtf @randomwa
So much BS and off-topic crap yet somehow only my posts are moved around.
This is hilarious. You defend the obscene amounts of money being paid to France but then cry wolf over something far cheaper. Paying through the nose is what we are doing with the ($115mn) Rafale which in addition requires another $1 billion in 'India specific enhancements' and billion dollar bases. How much would Rafale MLU cost? Compared to $70mn Soop
A large part of the ASH upgrades are already being funded via Block III which is a slightly pared down version in order to be quickly integrated during the USN's overhaul process and in any case it will be far cheaper than Rafale.
So much BS and off-topic crap yet somehow only my posts are moved around.
Welcome to this dimension
This is hilarious. You defend the obscene amounts of money being paid to France but then cry wolf over something far cheaper. Paying through the nose is what we are doing with the ($115mn) Rafale which in addition requires another $1 billion in 'India specific enhancements' and billion dollar bases. How much would Rafale MLU cost? Compared to $70mn Soop
A large part of the ASH upgrades are already being funded via Block III which is a slightly pared down version in order to be quickly integrated during the USN's overhaul process and in any case it will be far cheaper than Rafale.
Japan would strongly disagree. Ultimately it comes down to whether countries are willing to put up the necessary dough to see through the development and production of a fighter program of which most are simply incapable. Except for the US, Russia and China no country can afford the spend needed to bring a fully indigenous fighter jet to fruition. Even countries like Germany, UK and France prefer to form consortiums to share costs. Israel given its size has a flourishing aerospace industry. The LAVI program would never have existed without US funding for it in the first place.
The solution could be :
1) MMRCA 2 for rafale => 36 already ordered + 110
2) 57 SH18 for IN so as to pleased uncle Sam.
a 70 $million SH18 ? it was 15 years ago that price Bro.
And compare range, load, agility.... The heavier and more lazy one is not the more effective.
"That'd be my guess as well. It's not the whole purpose of this upgrade, but if you're bringing them in for a depot level upgrade, might as well add it to the list of things being done.
* radar upgrades - AN/APG-63v3 or AN/APG-79 (some reports say one, some reports say the other, I'm going to assume it's the APG-79 since I don't think the APG-63 can fit on a Rhino and the APG-79 was built based off the APG-63 family)
* conformal fuel tanks
* new ECM suite
* RAM coating
* redesign of the intakes to lower frontal RCS? (Boeing hinted at it, but won't confirm/deny)
* new power module for the F414-GE-400 engines (roughly 20% thrust increase/better fuel burn)
* IRST? (some reports say yes while some say no, but Lockheed Martin was allowed to enter LRIP with it back in 2014, so I'm going to guess yes)
* all glass cockpit ([supposed representation](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/09/40/b109402b4b2e0b6d0c2d5fa22f258608.jpg))
so RAM coating to reduce the RCS is more of a "Well, while we have it here at the dealer, might as well get it detailed too", but I suspect all RCS work will target angles from the front of the aircraft to allow it to get closer without being detected, that would certainly coincide with the potential intake redesign."
credit to /u/lordderplythethird on reddit.
* radar upgrades - AN/APG-63v3 or AN/APG-79 (some reports say one, some reports say the other, I'm going to assume it's the APG-79 since I don't think the APG-63 can fit on a Rhino and the APG-79 was built based off the APG-63 family)
* conformal fuel tanks
* new ECM suite
* RAM coating
* redesign of the intakes to lower frontal RCS? (Boeing hinted at it, but won't confirm/deny)
* new power module for the F414-GE-400 engines (roughly 20% thrust increase/better fuel burn)
* IRST? (some reports say yes while some say no, but Lockheed Martin was allowed to enter LRIP with it back in 2014, so I'm going to guess yes)
* all glass cockpit ([supposed representation](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/09/40/b109402b4b2e0b6d0c2d5fa22f258608.jpg))
so RAM coating to reduce the RCS is more of a "Well, while we have it here at the dealer, might as well get it detailed too", but I suspect all RCS work will target angles from the front of the aircraft to allow it to get closer without being detected, that would certainly coincide with the potential intake redesign."
credit to /u/lordderplythethird on reddit.
Every source in the world pegs the cost @70mn flyaway.
Yes Rafale is more agile but does that difference mean that much today? As such our competitors have more agile planes anyway. Range is slightly better but if we can buy 12 SH for the price of 10 Rafale, which fleet will be more effective?
Interesting....
You cote 10 Rafale for the price of 12 SH => 10 Rafale x 115 $million each /12 = 95 $ million per SH18. It's more serious than 70 $million.
And if 10 rafale can make more missions per day than 12 SH.... and it's the case !
That was just for demonstration purposes. SH cost is $70mn and ASH is $79mn. But ASH comes prebuilt with 9000h airframe versus 6000h for SH while the enhanced F414 is said to cost $8mn versus F414-400 only $4mn.
More Rafales are no brainer, they will eventually be inducted in number exceeding 100. I can see need of 6-8 squad more which can be taken up by foreign vendor in IAF and though I do not wish but US might get this chunk. 16 and 35 wont be coming, and MoD ask to evaluate twin engine as well hint of 18's chances.
IN should go by either Rafale or F-35.
F-35 beyond any question for the navy. The STOVL version solves 99% of the IN aircraft problems. They can man the assault ships and launch off any Indian carrier. A nuclear powered Indian carrier is still at least 20 years away.
IN has to go by USN lines. Soon we will realizes (or might already have) that to assert ourselves in global arena, we need to have our navy far stronger than our air force. That realization must come by now.
@vstol Jockey
There's no evidence it's cheaper and the Rafale cost was $105m for India.
Oh right, because the F-18 that didn't meet the IAF's requirements last time will not need a PENNY spent to allow them to meet IAF's BFE needs and they will be able to operate from MiG-21's infrastructure.
Fact is, the ISEs paid for the Rafale will not need to be paid again if the Rafale is ordered but WILL for every other jet. That's an easy $2BN USD saving straight off the bat.
Sure thing! $70M for USN or existing F-18 opertators maybe 10 years ago, to imagine India would pay anything close to this price for the ASH version is beyond absurd. F-18 ASH will 100% cost more than the Rafale for India.
Would be sheer madness not to have a common platform for IAF and IN, would be throwing $3-4B (and many more over the system life span) down the drain from the outset.
Can we remain in the REAL WORLD, F-35 is NOT on offer to India, the hurdles that India will have to jump over just to get clearances make it an unpalatable prospect from the outset.