MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 31 13.1%

  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 187 78.9%

  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%

  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Total voters
    237
F-414 EPE is already available, thrust 120 kN. TWR 11:1 wow
M88 50 kN (11,200 lbf) and 75 kN (16,900 lbf) (with afterburner) 7.8:1 (wet/afterburning) (76.0 N/kg)

So well I did imagine, felt nice, but reality... 85 kN, under development 100 kN ,, still far away, its more like paper engine.

Strange as it seems, the French want want us to imagine something when they have nothing credible to offer in near future, but when others show timeline for their development, they term it as paper project.


Bon Plan said:
Just imagine a actual Rafale with 2x85Kn....
Or a modified Rafale with 2x100Kn...
Click to expand...
 
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A correction Rafale M 10,6 t empty weight, MTOW 24.5 t

xXx said:
hum, people forget the view weight/power
SH E/F 13,8t empty weight, 29t mtow but the catobar carrier is limited to 25t
Rafale 9,5t empty weight 24,5t mtow
Mig29K 11t empty weight 24,5 mtow
F35C 15,8t empty weight , 31,8t mtow. (limit 25T for catobar carrier) wait for new generation carrier
Click to expand...
 
smestarz said:
F-414 EPE is already available, thrust 120 kN. TWR 11:1 wow
M88 50 kN (11,200 lbf) and 75 kN (16,900 lbf) (with afterburner) 7.8:1 (wet/afterburning) (76.0 N/kg)

So well I did imagine, felt nice, but reality... 85 kN, under development 100 kN ,, still far away, its more like paper engine.

Strange as it seems, the French want want us to imagine something when they have nothing credible to offer in near future, but when others show timeline for their development, they term it as paper project.
Click to expand...
It is said a 83Kn M88 is on the later stage. Some say for Qatar .... let's see.
A 90Kn was tested for UAE.... 7 years ago.

Nothing credible...
You say exactly the same about a first indian Rafale purchase 2 years ago. We all know what is the truth :
IT WAS CREDIBLE. AND YOU ARE NOT CREDIBLE.
 
smestarz said:
A correction Rafale M 10,6 t empty weight, MTOW 24.5 t
Click to expand...
A correction : Rafale M = 10.2 tons empty.

Be precise ! :ROFLMAO:

Caractéristiques du Rafale M
  • Envergure : 10,90 mètres
  • Surface alaire : 46 m²
  • Longueur : 15,27 mètres
  • Hauteur : 5,34 mètres
  • Masses :
    • à vide : 10 196 kg
    • maximale : 24 000 kg
  • Vitesse maximale : Mach 1,6 (1 290 nœuds)
  • Vitesse d'approche : 120 nœuds
  • Temps de patrouille : 2 heures sans ravitaillement en vol
  • Plafond : 50 000 pieds
  • Distance franchissable : 1 000 nautiques
Motorisation

  • 2 réacteurs SNECMA M 88-2 de 7,5 tonnes de poussée
Armement

  • Armement en mission de défense aérienne :
    • Canon de 30 mm DEFA 791.
    • Missiles air-air MICA à guidage électromagnétique et à guidage infrarouge
    • Dans un futur proche : missile METEOR
  • Armement en mission air/sol :
    • Canon de 30 mm DEFA 791.
    • Bombes à guidage laser.
    • Bombe propulsée à guidage GPS ou Infra Rouge AASM (Armement Air Sol Modulaire).
    • Missile de croisière SCALP - EG
    • Missile anti-navire AM 39.
    • Missile ASMP-A.
Équipements électroniques et optroniques

  • Radar RBE-2
  • Capteur optronique OSF.
  • Système EMTI.
  • Liaison de données tactique L16
  • Système de contre-mesures électroniques Spectra.
  • Pod de désignation laser Damoclès.
  • Nacelle de reconnaissance nouvelle génération.

Sources : © Marine nationale
Droits : Ministère de la Défense




https://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/equipements/aeronefs/rafale-marine#eztoc491930_0_3
 
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Sounds nice, who's paying for the development? Indian navy?
I remember when UAE wanted Rafale with powerful engines, they were told by Dassault to pay for the engines and other upgrades.
Dassault aims to seal €8bn contract with UAE

I am curious to see how Rafale does indeed perform in Indian conditions, testing is one thing, being operational is another

zebra7 said:
how about Rafale with 20% more thrust.
Click to expand...

Thats a better link
but unfortunately its not 9.5 tons as reported by the poster, good that you have accurate no,
MTOW is 24 T. entire 500 kg less? interesting

Bon Plan said:
A correction : Rafale M = 10.2 tons empty.

Be precise ! :ROFLMAO:

Caractéristiques du Rafale M
  • Envergure : 10,90 mètres
  • Surface alaire : 46 m²
  • Longueur : 15,27 mètres
  • Hauteur : 5,34 mètres
  • Masses :
    • à vide : 10 196 kg
    • maximale : 24 000 kg
  • Vitesse maximale : Mach 1,6 (1 290 nœuds)
  • Vitesse d'approche : 120 nœuds
  • Temps de patrouille : 2 heures sans ravitaillement en vol
  • Plafond : 50 000 pieds
  • Distance franchissable : 1 000 nautiques
Motorisation

  • 2 réacteurs SNECMA M 88-2 de 7,5 tonnes de poussée
Armement

  • Armement en mission de défense aérienne :
    • Canon de 30 mm DEFA 791.
    • Missiles air-air MICA à guidage électromagnétique et à guidage infrarouge
    • Dans un futur proche : missile METEOR
  • Armement en mission air/sol :
    • Canon de 30 mm DEFA 791.
    • Bombes à guidage laser.
    • Bombe propulsée à guidage GPS ou Infra Rouge AASM (Armement Air Sol Modulaire).
    • Missile de croisière SCALP - EG
    • Missile anti-navire AM 39.
    • Missile ASMP-A.
Équipements électroniques et optroniques

  • Radar RBE-2
  • Capteur optronique OSF.
  • Système EMTI.
  • Liaison de données tactique L16
  • Système de contre-mesures électroniques Spectra.
  • Pod de désignation laser Damoclès.
  • Nacelle de reconnaissance nouvelle génération.

Sources : © Marine nationale
Droits : Ministère de la Défense




https://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/equipements/aeronefs/rafale-marine#eztoc491930_0_3
Click to expand...

".. It is said ... " " ... just imagine .... "
being tested not really produced and certified correct? So in a way Item 30 engine seems to be in more advance stage than new M88 for Rafale?
F-414 EPE is already available ...
so we should wait for " ... just imagine ... " stuff?
Eurofighter had suggested Sea Typhoon, and I think they started with " ... just imagine ... "

True, did we order 126 + 63 ? RFP was cancelled hahaha
Just because of pressure from IAF Modi went to order for 36, but would he do the same mistake again?
Surely Rafale lost the big ticket deal, you can call it " Moral victory"

Bon Plan said:
It is said a 83Kn M88 is on the later stage. Some say for Qatar .... let's see.
A 90Kn was tested for UAE.... 7 years ago.

Nothing credible...
You say exactly the same about a first indian Rafale purchase 2 years ago. We all know what is the truth :
IT WAS CREDIBLE. AND YOU ARE NOT CREDIBLE.
Click to expand...
 
screambowl said:
you can compare the M88 fuel consumption with F414. More over a country needs to see it's fuel reserves and other sort of logistics before going for twin or sin eng. of comparing operating cost of f35 with f15/f18 is not right example. Both are different categories.
Click to expand...

When an Airforce has to look at mileage of its fighter aircrafts, which are less than 200 in number; you know it is truly *censored*ed.
 
smestarz said:
Thats a better link
but unfortunately its not 9.5 tons as reported by the poster, good that you have accurate no,
MTOW is 24 T. entire 500 kg less? interesting
Click to expand...
Rafale was conceived for 27.5T full weight. But not used so far.
On our carrier it can only takeoff at 24T (speed of Charles de Gaulle = 27 knots, 75m catapults)
 
smestarz said:
".. It is said ... " " ... just imagine .... "
being tested not really produced and certified correct? So in a way Item 30 engine seems to be in more advance stage than new M88 for Rafale?
F-414 EPE is already available ...
so we should wait for " ... just imagine ... " stuff?
Eurofighter had suggested Sea Typhoon, and I think they started with " ... just imagine ... "

True, did we order 126 + 63 ? RFP was cancelled hahaha
Just because of pressure from IAF Modi went to order for 36, but would he do the same mistake again?
Surely Rafale lost the big ticket deal, you can call it " Moral victory"
Click to expand...
We all know the budget allowed for MMRCA was inspired by the cost of M2000.
But India wanted a bigger plane,
India wanted a deep MII, and that cost !
=> It was impossible to clinch a deal. For every competitors !

The 36 were a first batch. At least onother one will follow, it's certain. Final number will be 72 to.... 250.
 
Rafale-C empty weight of 9.5 tons is the manufacturers empty weight. The Operating weight empty is nearly 10.2 tons.
The Rafale-M Manufacturer empty weight is 9.8 tons and its operating weight empty is 10.5 tons.
 
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Manufacturer empty weight is the empty weight of the aircraft without unusable fuel, engine oil, hydraulic oil, pilot and his supplies etc. The Operating empty weight (OWE) is the weight of the aircraft prepared to undertake a flight but without fuel and armament. The OWE includes all those things which are not included in manufacturer empty weight.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The strike to Syria with 5 Rafale from St Dizier (France) was 10h long and was with 4 Rafale B and 1 Rafale C (1 seat).
You can see here a picture of the rafale C
France Syria Airstrikes | Colorado Springs Gazette Photo Gallery
Click to expand...
I am totally confused. The pics show two scalp on each aircraft. A total of nine were fired from nine aircraft including M2Ks and three were fired from the frigate by French forces. What happened to the rest of the scalps carried by Rafale?
I will never want to do a 10h mission on a single seat aircraft. One off such mission can be done but can't be sustained in actual high tempo war.
 
vstol Jockey said:
I am totally confused. The pics show two scalp on each aircraft. A total of nine were fired from nine aircraft including M2Ks and three were fired from the frigate by French forces. What happened to the rest of the scalps carried by Rafale?
I will never want to do a 10h mission on a single seat aircraft. One off such mission can be done but can't be sustained in actual high tempo war.
Click to expand...
Only Rafale were carrying SCALP, Mirage were for protection. So 5 Rafale ==> 10 Scalp, I suppose one was in reserve in case of a failure (our Scalp are old now)
 
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