MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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some (plenty of in fact) journalists are unable to distinghish a Rafale of a Mirage.
NO.
I said the news you read used probably a Mirage pics instead of a Rafale one.
I perfectly know that you are aware of this kind of things.
Where goes this futil polemic ? It is not good for the rafale if this polemic goes too far. Modi can't anymore buy Rafale, and the opposition won't also for political reasons.
Congress demands judicial probe into Rafale fighter jet deal – Indian Defence Research Wing
Congress demands judicial probe into Rafale fighter jet deal – Indian Defence Research Wing
Rafale international will make the best offer for MMRCA2.
Best because it's the more potent mature fighter,
Best because it's already ordered by India,
Best because the first pilots are in the training course in France now and will make a nice publicity,
Best because with the Reliance/DA factory already made, the Rafale will be the first to be able to comply to MII.
So the Rafale indian saga is only at a beginning
Three UNSC nations navy, airforce launching missiles on empty warehouses after keeping Russia in loop need extra protection for state of the art platforms!!!
What will you guys do if Russia fired a warning shot? Abort and run back? Not the very good optics you got to agree though you can spin it well for domestic audience.
Grow some spine please, even tiny Turkey acted more courageously.
What will you guys do if Russia fired a warning shot? Abort and run back? Not the very good optics you got to agree though you can spin it well for domestic audience.
Grow some spine please, even tiny Turkey acted more courageously.
After aircraft spares, Reliance to make radar components in Mihan
After aircraft spares, Reliance to make radar components in Mihan - Times of India
After aircraft spares, Reliance to make radar components in Mihan - Times of India
No media house is ready to debate on this issue as they know that it will only delay the procurement process with no benefit. Only some internet fake propaganda pages are running this news with one outdated info regarding price in 2004 and 2012, which is BS.
AN OPERATIONAL PLANE AT CONTROLLED COST OF EMPLOYMENT
AN AIRCRAFT DESIGNED TO FACILITATE OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE
The Rafale's logistic support was defined based on the experience gained with the Mirage 2000, allowing the Rafale to inherit its excellent operational availability.
From the beginning of its development, the Ministry of Defense has imposed the Rafale very stringent requirements for integrated logistics support (SLI). It is thanks to the techniques of concurrent engineering, bold technological choices, and Dassault Systèmes' CATIA software that these requirements have been achieved and even surpassed.
Rafale B of the French Air Force in external operations (Operation Serval) - Flight view over Mali. Equipped with Damocles nacelle and GBU-12.
EXAMPLES OF THE RELIABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY AND MAINTAINABILITY OF THE RAFALE
The following examples, selected from a set of original and innovative solutions, demonstrate the Rafale advance in terms of reliability, accessibility and maintainability.
Over twenty years of experience in the MIRAGE 2000 has shown the value of integrated navigation system and weapon (SNA) testing. It was therefore decided on the Rafale to extend this principle to all aircraft systems. Thanks to the precision of the diagnostics they provide, the integrated tests make it possible to perform very targeted replacements on the track, up to the level of the electronic boards and specific components.
In-depth ergonomic studies have been conducted with the help of CATIA to ensure the accessibility of the elements in the aircraft bunkers, and thus allow the mechanic to be able to perform alone the maintenance operations on the track. These studies helped to reduce the risk of errors in execution and the duration of these operations.
A centralized system of security of the armaments makes it possible to be freed from all the operations relating to the traditional withdrawal of the safety pins at the end of the track. It undoubtedly reduces the risk of accident and error in the implementation of armaments, and gives unbeatable reset times that accelerate rotations in operations.
The use of CATIA leads to high precision mechanical assemblies, which can then replace the barrel, the viewfinder (HUD) or the radar without having to perform long harmonization sessions.
In case of removal for intervention on the M88 engine, there is no longer a mandatory check on a specific engine test bench before reassembly on the aircraft. This is a significant innovation brought by the M88.
In order to ensure maximum autonomy during its operational deployments, particularly on land with a rudimentary infrastructure, the Rafale needs only a minimum of equipment on the ground:
Rafale M on the Carrier Charles de Gaulle.
A HIGH-TECH, BUDGET-CONTROLLED FIGHTER
Thanks to its excellent reliability, the Rafale has significantly reduced maintenance costs.
Its original maintenance concept translates into lean scheduled maintenance requiring fewer hours of work and a smaller number of mechanics.
The Rafale does not need to leave its operational base for maintenance reasons. Unlike other types of fighter jets, the Rafale's airframe and engines are no longer expensive and time consuming.
While fleet leaders now exceed 3,300 flying hours, no structural parts have been changed, validating the robustness of the airframe and the maintenance concept.
With its 21 modules, the architecture of the M88 engine is perfectly representative of this maintenance philosophy: engine overhauls and repairs are done exclusively by returning modules or spare parts to the central workshop or to the manufacturer.No fixed point or balancing is needed before the return to service.
Deletion, very early in the design of the Rafale, of certain organs likely to decrease the reliability:
Rafale deployments have confirmed that there is no need for specialized infrastructure even in the case of intensive use: maintenance can be carried out either outdoors or possibly under temporary shelter.
A standardization effort at the design stage also helped to reduce the number of different spares:
Special attention has been paid to accessibility issues. For example, the side opening of the canopy facilitates the replacement of the ejection seat: two mechanics can do so in ten minutes.
THE RAFALE DOES NOT USE ANY MEANS OF EXTERNAL TEST ON THE RUNWAY
Since all the test systems are integrated, the mechanics carry out the tests on the plane itself.
There is no longer an engine control bench, which represents a remarkable innovation in the field of maintenance of combat aircraft.
Dassault Aviation has a long experience of corrosion treatment in on-board aviation (Super Etendard) and maritime patrol (Atlantic-1/Atlantic-2) which has allowed it to develop effective protection techniques. The Rafale thus benefits from a protection against corrosion which uses the most recent techniques, and which contributes to the reduction of the costs of use of the aircraft. Indeed, corrosion discovered during maintenance visits often leads to unpredictable delays in the return to service of aircraft and additional costs.
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AN AIRCRAFT DESIGNED TO FACILITATE OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE
The Rafale's logistic support was defined based on the experience gained with the Mirage 2000, allowing the Rafale to inherit its excellent operational availability.
From the beginning of its development, the Ministry of Defense has imposed the Rafale very stringent requirements for integrated logistics support (SLI). It is thanks to the techniques of concurrent engineering, bold technological choices, and Dassault Systèmes' CATIA software that these requirements have been achieved and even surpassed.
Rafale B of the French Air Force in external operations (Operation Serval) - Flight view over Mali. Equipped with Damocles nacelle and GBU-12.
EXAMPLES OF THE RELIABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY AND MAINTAINABILITY OF THE RAFALE
The following examples, selected from a set of original and innovative solutions, demonstrate the Rafale advance in terms of reliability, accessibility and maintainability.
Over twenty years of experience in the MIRAGE 2000 has shown the value of integrated navigation system and weapon (SNA) testing. It was therefore decided on the Rafale to extend this principle to all aircraft systems. Thanks to the precision of the diagnostics they provide, the integrated tests make it possible to perform very targeted replacements on the track, up to the level of the electronic boards and specific components.
In-depth ergonomic studies have been conducted with the help of CATIA to ensure the accessibility of the elements in the aircraft bunkers, and thus allow the mechanic to be able to perform alone the maintenance operations on the track. These studies helped to reduce the risk of errors in execution and the duration of these operations.
A centralized system of security of the armaments makes it possible to be freed from all the operations relating to the traditional withdrawal of the safety pins at the end of the track. It undoubtedly reduces the risk of accident and error in the implementation of armaments, and gives unbeatable reset times that accelerate rotations in operations.
The use of CATIA leads to high precision mechanical assemblies, which can then replace the barrel, the viewfinder (HUD) or the radar without having to perform long harmonization sessions.
In case of removal for intervention on the M88 engine, there is no longer a mandatory check on a specific engine test bench before reassembly on the aircraft. This is a significant innovation brought by the M88.
In order to ensure maximum autonomy during its operational deployments, particularly on land with a rudimentary infrastructure, the Rafale needs only a minimum of equipment on the ground:
- Thanks to an OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generation System), no external supply of liquid oxygen is required, which eliminates the need for associated production and transport ground equipment.
- Nitrogen cooling of optronic equipment is done in a closed loop, which eliminates a supply chain of nitrogen supply.
- Its Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) allows it to boot autonomously, without a fleet group.
- All means of servitude are sufficiently compact (and possibly folding) to be air-transportable. They do not require external power supply. In addition, two types of trolley are sufficient to install and remove the weapons.
Rafale M on the Carrier Charles de Gaulle.
A HIGH-TECH, BUDGET-CONTROLLED FIGHTER
Thanks to its excellent reliability, the Rafale has significantly reduced maintenance costs.
Its original maintenance concept translates into lean scheduled maintenance requiring fewer hours of work and a smaller number of mechanics.
The Rafale does not need to leave its operational base for maintenance reasons. Unlike other types of fighter jets, the Rafale's airframe and engines are no longer expensive and time consuming.
While fleet leaders now exceed 3,300 flying hours, no structural parts have been changed, validating the robustness of the airframe and the maintenance concept.
With its 21 modules, the architecture of the M88 engine is perfectly representative of this maintenance philosophy: engine overhauls and repairs are done exclusively by returning modules or spare parts to the central workshop or to the manufacturer.No fixed point or balancing is needed before the return to service.
Deletion, very early in the design of the Rafale, of certain organs likely to decrease the reliability:
- airbrakes
- moving parts of the air inlets
- constant speed drives (CSD) alternators
- mechanism of extension and retraction of the supply boom,
Rafale deployments have confirmed that there is no need for specialized infrastructure even in the case of intensive use: maintenance can be carried out either outdoors or possibly under temporary shelter.
A standardization effort at the design stage also helped to reduce the number of different spares:
- The same reference is used at different places on the plane. Thanks to the precision of the mechanical manufacturing which makes it possible to suppress the adjustment and harmonization operations during the assembly of the cell, it is easier to mount the same part reference to all the places where it is used.
- The left and right elements are identical when possible: ducks, servo-controls ...
- Various elements, such as screws or electronic modules, have also benefited from this approach.
Special attention has been paid to accessibility issues. For example, the side opening of the canopy facilitates the replacement of the ejection seat: two mechanics can do so in ten minutes.
THE RAFALE DOES NOT USE ANY MEANS OF EXTERNAL TEST ON THE RUNWAY
Since all the test systems are integrated, the mechanics carry out the tests on the plane itself.
There is no longer an engine control bench, which represents a remarkable innovation in the field of maintenance of combat aircraft.
Dassault Aviation has a long experience of corrosion treatment in on-board aviation (Super Etendard) and maritime patrol (Atlantic-1/Atlantic-2) which has allowed it to develop effective protection techniques. The Rafale thus benefits from a protection against corrosion which uses the most recent techniques, and which contributes to the reduction of the costs of use of the aircraft. Indeed, corrosion discovered during maintenance visits often leads to unpredictable delays in the return to service of aircraft and additional costs.
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Last edited:
And
So they are going to put the GE 132 inside Block 70 without specific structural difference of block 60 designed to accomodate a GE 132 engne.
it's a little patched up.
The air cooled AESA will avoid external plumbing for cooling conventional AESA radars. That sounds interesting. What other combat plane users an air cooled AESA, I am under the impression that there aren't too many out there.
In fact, heat extraction is one of the important limitations of radar performance.
For example for the UAE Thales's offer on the radar was only 50% better for the range than the PESA and the UAE asked us to improve it by another 10%. For this, it has been proposed to change the cooling circuit pump to increase the power from 10 kw to 14.4 kw. Since the tests showed that the RBE2 AESA had a range of 100% greater than the PESA.
With air cooling you can not extract as much heat as with a liquid system and therefore you will have to limit the power of the T / R modules which will reduce the range.
The JF-17's radar has a choice between air-cooled and liquid-cooled.
The advantage to an air-cooled radar is it's lighter.
The advantage to an air-cooled radar is it's lighter.
And yet Rafale during strike operations in Syria is accompanied by Mirage 2000 and not other Rafale in A2A configurations
That does in a way show that Rafale is not that Cheap or effective to operate as Mirage (2 Rafale = 5 Mirage 2000 is a myth to try and sell Rafales to some stupid countries which,. now includes India.
If the French truly believed it then the escort would have been Rafale too,
Also there was a talk of Rafale being OMNI ROLE, and that it can handle many roles during same flight, and yet this strike operation in Syria shows everything to the contrary . where Mirage 2000 are escorts.
How do the French experts explain this please
That does in a way show that Rafale is not that Cheap or effective to operate as Mirage (2 Rafale = 5 Mirage 2000 is a myth to try and sell Rafales to some stupid countries which,. now includes India.
If the French truly believed it then the escort would have been Rafale too,
Also there was a talk of Rafale being OMNI ROLE, and that it can handle many roles during same flight, and yet this strike operation in Syria shows everything to the contrary . where Mirage 2000 are escorts.
How do the French experts explain this please
AN OPERATIONAL PLANE AT CONTROLLED COST OF EMPLOYMENT
AN AIRCRAFT DESIGNED TO FACILITATE OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE
The Rafale's logistic support was defined based on the experience gained with the Mirage 2000, allowing the Rafale to inherit its excellent operational availability.
From the beginning of its development, the Ministry of Defense has imposed the Rafale very stringent requirements for integrated logistics support (SLI). It is thanks to the techniques of concurrent engineering, bold technological choices, and Dassault Systèmes' CATIA software that these requirements have been achieved and even surpassed.
Rafale B of the French Air Force in external operations (Operation Serval) - Flight view over Mali. Equipped with Damocles nacelle and GBU-12.
EXAMPLES OF THE RELIABILITY, ACCESSIBILITY AND MAINTAINABILITY OF THE RAFALE
The following examples, selected from a set of original and innovative solutions, demonstrate the Rafale advance in terms of reliability, accessibility and maintainability.
Over twenty years of experience in the MIRAGE 2000 has shown the value of integrated navigation system and weapon (SNA) testing. It was therefore decided on the Rafale to extend this principle to all aircraft systems. Thanks to the precision of the diagnostics they provide, the integrated tests make it possible to perform very targeted replacements on the track, up to the level of the electronic boards and specific components.
In-depth ergonomic studies have been conducted with the help of CATIA to ensure the accessibility of the elements in the aircraft bunkers, and thus allow the mechanic to be able to perform alone the maintenance operations on the track. These studies helped to reduce the risk of errors in execution and the duration of these operations.
A centralized system of security of the armaments makes it possible to be freed from all the operations relating to the traditional withdrawal of the safety pins at the end of the track. It undoubtedly reduces the risk of accident and error in the implementation of armaments, and gives unbeatable reset times that accelerate rotations in operations.
The use of CATIA leads to high precision mechanical assemblies, which can then replace the barrel, the viewfinder (HUD) or the radar without having to perform long harmonization sessions.
In case of removal for intervention on the M88 engine, there is no longer a mandatory check on a specific engine test bench before reassembly on the aircraft. This is a significant innovation brought by the M88.
In order to ensure maximum autonomy during its operational deployments, particularly on land with a rudimentary infrastructure, the Rafale needs only a minimum of equipment on the ground:
These features of maintainability are validated from the development phase of the aircraft by the support specialists of the Air Force and the Navy and have demonstrated their reliability in combat during the various operations. This simplicity of maintenance allows a rapid training of technicians on Rafale: in a few weeks, the support of the aircraft and conversion training Rafale could be organized for the benefit of an export customer, allowing him to reach the autonomy of action he needed to deploy his planes successfully.
- Thanks to an OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generation System), no external supply of liquid oxygen is required, which eliminates the need for associated production and transport ground equipment.
- Nitrogen cooling of optronic equipment is done in a closed loop, which eliminates a supply chain of nitrogen supply.
- Its Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) allows it to boot autonomously, without a fleet group.
- All means of servitude are sufficiently compact (and possibly folding) to be air-transportable. They do not require external power supply. In addition, two types of trolley are sufficient to install and remove the weapons.
Rafale M on the Carrier Charles de Gaulle.
A HIGH-TECH, BUDGET-CONTROLLED FIGHTER
Thanks to its excellent reliability, the Rafale has significantly reduced maintenance costs.
Its original maintenance concept translates into lean scheduled maintenance requiring fewer hours of work and a smaller number of mechanics.
The Rafale does not need to leave its operational base for maintenance reasons. Unlike other types of fighter jets, the Rafale's airframe and engines are no longer expensive and time consuming.
While fleet leaders now exceed 3,300 flying hours, no structural parts have been changed, validating the robustness of the airframe and the maintenance concept.
With its 21 modules, the architecture of the M88 engine is perfectly representative of this maintenance philosophy: engine overhauls and repairs are done exclusively by returning modules or spare parts to the central workshop or to the manufacturer.No fixed point or balancing is needed before the return to service.
Deletion, very early in the design of the Rafale, of certain organs likely to decrease the reliability:
which leads to a significant reduction in the requirements in terms of spare parts, maintenance hours and ground resources.
- airbrakes
- moving parts of the air inlets
- constant speed drives (CSD) alternators
- mechanism of extension and retraction of the supply boom,
Rafale deployments have confirmed that there is no need for specialized infrastructure even in the case of intensive use: maintenance can be carried out either outdoors or possibly under temporary shelter.
A standardization effort at the design stage also helped to reduce the number of different spares:
Similarly, by improving the troubleshooting means, it is possible to change the electronic circuit boards of a replaceable online unit (URL), instead of replacing the URL itself. This helps to reduce spare batches of RBE2, SPECTRA, EMTI mission calculator and other equipment.
- The same reference is used at different places on the plane. Thanks to the precision of the mechanical manufacturing which makes it possible to suppress the adjustment and harmonization operations during the assembly of the cell, it is easier to mount the same part reference to all the places where it is used.
- The left and right elements are identical when possible: ducks, servo-controls ...
- Various elements, such as screws or electronic modules, have also benefited from this approach.
Special attention has been paid to accessibility issues. For example, the side opening of the canopy facilitates the replacement of the ejection seat: two mechanics can do so in ten minutes.
THE RAFALE DOES NOT USE ANY MEANS OF EXTERNAL TEST ON THE RUNWAY
Since all the test systems are integrated, the mechanics carry out the tests on the plane itself.
There is no longer an engine control bench, which represents a remarkable innovation in the field of maintenance of combat aircraft.
Dassault Aviation has a long experience of corrosion treatment in on-board aviation (Super Etendard) and maritime patrol (Atlantic-1/Atlantic-2) which has allowed it to develop effective protection techniques. The Rafale thus benefits from a protection against corrosion which uses the most recent techniques, and which contributes to the reduction of the costs of use of the aircraft. Indeed, corrosion discovered during maintenance visits often leads to unpredictable delays in the return to service of aircraft and additional costs.
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