MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 31 13.1%

  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 187 78.9%

  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%

  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.5%

  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.8%

  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Total voters
    237
Milspec said:
Please share a reference that corroborates the above, I am not aware of any of HAL Nashik technicians, engineers or managers operating out of any other IAF site.

No need to assume nonsense in the first place.

Let me ask you, do you have the faintest idea of what goes into assembling a CKD fighter aircraft ?

This is AJT CKD's being assembled:

hawk.jpg



If you think a few men and a few cranes are enough to assemble CKD's Anil ambani wouldn't be shitting bricks right now.
Click to expand...

*yawn*

The Russians assembled 18 Su-30K/MK and 68 MKI using CKDs at Lohegaon AFB.
HAL assembled 162 MKI SKDs and CKDs in Nashik.

If we order 40 more MKIs, the Russians will manufacture the aircraft and transfer the kits to HAL for assembly. There's your MKI production.

Ambani is fine. You forget that the actual work will be carried out by Dassault, not Reliance.

Dude, stop bragging about assembling kits, even Pakistanis are doing more than that now with their JF-17s.
 
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randomradio said:
*yawn*

The Russians assembled 18 Su-30K/MK and 68 MKI using CKDs at Lohegaon AFB.
HAL assembled 162 MKI SKDs and CKDs in Nashik.

If we order 40 more MKIs, the Russians will manufacture the aircraft and transfer the kits to HAL for assembly. There's your MKI production.

Ambani is fine. You forget that the actual work will be carried out by Dassault, not Reliance.

Dude, stop bragging about assembling kits, even Pakistanis are doing more than that now with their JF-17s.
Click to expand...

Lets get something clear.
Su30K/MK that arrived in India were NOT CKD's. They were Semi Knocked down kits flown in Antanovs and put together by Russian Technicians.

HAL has NEVER assembled CKD's in an IAF base.

All SU30MKI have come out of Nashik.

Phase 1 of MKI production was SKD kits, and Phase II and III were CKD kits, with Phase IV being full production: All made in Nashik


Thus

randomradio said:
HAL assembled the 82 kits in an IAF owned facility.
.
Click to expand...
BS


As far as JF17: PAKISTANIS DO NOT MAKE THEIR AIRFRAME, Radars, Engines, any structural components, any of major avionics components. Please do not compare HAL with PAC. I can understand people's hatred towards HAL but there is no need to denigrate a national institution with such vile.
 
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Bon Plan said:
OK. I was a little bit uffraid....
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Uffraid of of what? Junk J-20s which can be seen by our SU30mkis or @Milspec going Full Monty with his BRAIN stating their production of 200 per year.....:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

BTW @randomradio is right first lot of SU30MKI s were indeed assembled at lohegaon air base and to speed up induction 50 SKD were assembled at Nasik IAF BRD during 2008-2012 and so were Mig29Ks at Goa naval base if I am not wrong.
 
lcafanboy said:
Uffraid of of what? Junk J-20s which can be seen by our SU30mkis or @Milspec going Full Monty with his BRAIN stating their production of 200 per year.....:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

BTW @randomradio is right first lot of SU30MKI s were indeed assembled at lohegaon air base and to speed up induction 50 SKD were assembled at Nasik IAF BRD during 2008-2012 and so were Mig29Ks at Goa naval base if I am not wrong.
Click to expand...
You really don't get sarcasm, do you?
 
Milspec said:
Lets get something clear.
Su30K/MK that arrived in India were NOT CKD's. They were Semi Knocked down kits flown in Antanovs and put together by Russian Technicians.

HAL has NEVER assembled CKD's in an IAF base.

All SU30MKI have come out of Nashik.

Phase 1 of MKI production was SKD kits, and Phase II and III were CKD kits, with Phase IV being full production: All made in Nashik


Thus


BS


As far as JF17: PAKISTANIS DO NOT MAKE THEIR AIRFRAME, Radars, Engines, any structural components, any of major avionics components. Please do not compare HAL with PAC. I can understand people's hatred towards HAL but there is no need to denigrate a national institution with such vile.
Click to expand...

Sure. It doesn't change anything. CKD production is useless.

Buying 40 more CKDs is a waste of money, IAF is going for 36 more Rafales and production at Dassault instead. Actual production, not simply assembly.
 
randomradio said:
Sure. It doesn't change anything. CKD production is useless.
Click to expand...
It doesn't, just calling you out on your incorrect info.
HAL never has manufactured any SU30MKI's outside Nashik.
There is a difference between CKD's and SKD
Initial tranche of Su30K's were SKD's purely from logistical standpoint of transferring units from russia to India.

randomradio said:
Buying 40 more CKDs is a waste of money, IAF is going for 36 more Rafales and production at Dassault instead. Actual production, not simply assembly.
Click to expand...
Hmm, From Production perspective, You would prefer Production at Dassault (actual Production as you say above) Remind me again how is "Actual Production" in France helping India vs CKD in India?
 
Milspec said:
It doesn't, just calling you out on your incorrect info.
HAL never has manufactured any SU30MKI's outside Nashik.
There is a difference between CKD's and SKD
Initial tranche of Su30K's were SKD's purely from logistical standpoint of transferring units from russia to India.

Hmm, From Production perspective, You would prefer Production at Dassault (actual Production as you say above) Remind me again how is "Actual Production" in France helping India vs CKD in India?
Click to expand...

By Dassault, I meant DRAL in India, by Dassault. Reliance is simply the majority shareholder. They have no choice but to stand back and watch.

Milspec said:
sure it wasn't 50-75 ac/yr?
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Sure, that's for the PLAAF. Then PLAN will also absorb huge numbers once their carriers start coming in. It's nothing special, those numbers. The combined numbers for Su-30SM, Su-35 and Su-34 is as much as 70 in Russia.

For LRIP alone, their numbers are at 36 per year. You can expect 4 production lines with 12 each for the PLAAF and 1 more for the PLAN. Then you can expect the J-20 to have other versions also, like strike. Expect 1 or 2 lines for this model as well. Nothing special for such a large program.
 
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randomradio said:
By Dassault, I meant DRAL in India, by Dassault. Reliance is simply the majority shareholder. They have no choice but to stand back and watch.
Click to expand...
When did IAF order 36 additional rafales from DRAL? And everything from raw material, stampings, actuators, servos, harnesses, mission comps, airframes, spars, wings assemblies, engines, avionics, Landing gears, gearboxes, will be built from scratch "actual production" by DRAL for 35 a/c? thats big news to me.

Are these "actual production" from aircraft No 37, are there any phases or straight up "actual production" will happen in DRAL?

Forget the rest, I wonder if DRAL even has AL profilers and VMC's to just make the airframes. When you are making snide remarks on HAL's capabilities, is there even a business case for "actual production" for book order of these alleged 36 units for DRAL. Especially when DRAL's parent company Reliance Infrastructure is one of the largest debt laden ventures in India. Is Dassault going to make the investment for all this, if not who is lending to Reliance infra when it has duds like Reliance naval (pipavav) draining itself by capitalizing interests? Given that you are preaching on MoD's function how much of the book value of the order will MoD release to support such venture? If Reliance Infra goes to NCLT, why wouldn't it's lenders drag DRAL down with it?
 
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Milspec said:
When did IAF order 36 additional rafales from DRAL? And everything from raw material, stampings, actuators, servos, harnesses, mission comps, airframes, spars, wings assemblies, engines, avionics, Landing gears, gearboxes, will be built from scratch "actual production" by DRAL for 35 a/c? thats big news to me.

Are these "actual production" from aircraft No 37, are there any phases or straight up "actual production" will happen in DRAL?

Forget the rest, I wonder if DRAL even has AL profilers and VMC's to just make the airframes. When you are making snide remarks on HAL's capabilities, is there even a business case for "actual production" for book order of these alleged 36 units for DRAL. Especially when DRAL's parent company Reliance Infrastructure is one of the largest debt laden ventures in India. Is Dassault going to make the investment for all this, if not who is lending to Reliance infra when it has duds like Reliance naval (pipavav) draining itself by capitalizing interests? Given that you are preaching on MoD's function how much of the book value of the order will MoD release to support such venture?
Click to expand...

The second order is coming up post elections. And production will be in phases, along with IN's order for 57 jets.

The IAF tender is a dog and pony show for the Rafale. Once the first order of 36 and IN's order of 57 come through, the IAF tender for 110 jets will also go to Rafale. And then the IN will order another 100 jets for IAC-2. Total production for Rafale will be 300+ without options.

And before production starts, Dassault will build 2 Rafales in India with their own funds to train the Indian workforce. Overall, it won't be the SKD/CKD joke that we have been doing with MKI, we have only actually manufactured only 60 jets, with over 20 still pending. Dassault wants even new export orders to be fulfilled from the Indian plant because they expect the Rafale's made in India to be 20% cheaper than French made Rafales.

If Reliance Infra goes to NCLT, why wouldn't it's lenders drag DRAL down with it?
Click to expand...

No relation. Military projects are under Reliance Infrastructure. The companies in trouble are under Reliance Communication. Rel Infra has been in the black since a long time.
 
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randomradio said:
Once the first order of 36 and IN's order of 57 come through, the IAF tender for 110 jets will also go to Rafale. And then the IN will order another 100 jets for IAC-2. Total production for Rafale will be 300+ without options.
Click to expand...
It's nice to see that.
Too nice.
But.... not too good to be true ?

As said until months, I will be very pleased with 120 units for IAF. For IN I'm afraid the politics will try to play the US card to diversify and buy the US card.
 
Bon Plan said:
As said until months, I will be very pleased with 120 units for IAF. For IN I'm afraid the politics will try to play the US card to diversify and buy the US card.
Click to expand...


After CATSA & US's ham-handed attempts at brow beating India ,even the most die hard supporters of the US line in the present establishment out here will hold his counsel regarding strategic technology & purchases from the US.

The Indian establishment whether this dispensation or the previous one were extremely cautious about engaging the US in strategic areas . CAATSA comes as vindication of those suspicions . I suspect there may be some quid pro quo in terms of India agreeing to a newly minted COMCASA &/or BECA ( with some India specific Clauses and relaxation of norms ) in lieu of a waiver , but strategic purchases like the F-16 / F-18 / F-35 are off the table for good .
 
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