MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[randomradio]

Last time they selected EFT and suddenly a heavy jet like f15 would be a choice? I did vote for it, but later thought hardly any ToT worth will be offered. I expect gripen to be considered due to ToT on offer.

American tech is not a choice, there's gonna be far too much reliance on them if both LCA and Gripen end up with the same engine.

The IAF is more interested in airframe and engine tech in order to keep the jets more serviceable. Electronics can be changed.

While Saab comes with airframe and electronics tech, it's gonna compete with the LCA making it moot. The IAF wants twin engine 'cause it's gonna do different missions, like DPS and OCA.

 

[randomradio]

Typhoon could be a contender only if the Brits offer their mk2 radar or the Germans offer their mk1 radars. If we get the Qatari mk0 version in offer rafale will take this easily. The f-15EX is a contender but it's lifecycle cost and lack of stealth make it extremely cost prohibitive. Although f-15EX could do a bomber role. Better buying 36-54 f-15EX for China and Pakistan than wasting money on tu-22m's.

BAE is taking the lead this time. They will offer their best tech. Personally I believe this is once again going to be a Rafale vs Typhoon contest. Mig-35 is Russian. Gripen and F-16 are LCA. F-15 is ancient.

Tu-160. Anyway, 36 F-15s will cost $12B. 6 Tu-160 will cost less than $3B. The B-1 is much more interesting though.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

There's a problem with the survey: 12.4 + 78.8 + 1.3 + 2.7 + 0.4 + 4.4 + 3.1 = 103.1 !!!

 

[Bon Plan]

Although f-15EX could do a bomber role.

Su30MKI has this role already.
Once you have MKI no need of F15, and once you have F15 no need of Su30, for every mission.
At least a part of the MKI fleet will have a deep MLU. Ie with a big AESA radar. The sole remaining asset of F15 will vanished.

 

[Bon Plan]

BAE is taking the lead this time. They will offer their best tech.

?
Where? The road map of EF2000 is unclear. Their AESA radars are more than 10 years late that those of Rafale (ie has less modes, is less mature).
Rafale F5 is on the drawing board and the F6 is already on the horizon. EFT lines will be closed in a coupe of years.

 

[randomradio]

There's a problem with the survey: 12.4 + 78.8 + 1.3 + 2.7 + 0.4 + 4.4 + 3.1 = 103.1 !!!

Rounding errors. Ignore the decimals.

 

[randomradio]

?
Where? The road map of EF2000 is unclear. Their AESA radars are more than 10 years late that those of Rafale (ie has less modes, is less mature).
Rafale F5 is on the drawing board and the F6 is already on the horizon. EFT lines will be closed in a coupe of years.

Tranche 4 is coming up with German and Spanish orders. Turkey also wants 40 jets.

Of course, if EFT and Rafale compete, the Rafale will win. Just pointing out that the Typhoon is still better than all the other competitors.

 

[Hydra]

Su30MKI has this role already.
Once you have MKI no need of F15, and once you have F15 no need of Su30, for every mission.
At least a part of the MKI fleet will have a deep MLU. Ie with a big AESA radar. The sole remaining asset of F15 will vanished.

We will not upgrade all our mki to super sukhoi standards. Probably 100+ will not be upgraded & phase out from service. So, there is definitley a room for F15 EX of 100-120 in numbers with IAF.

Tu-160. Anyway, 36 F-15s will cost $12B. 6 Tu-160 will cost less than $3B. The B-1 is much more interesting though.

TU160? We need a bomber, not a missile carrier.

 

[Innominate]

Typhoon could be a contender only if the Brits offer their mk2 radar or the Germans offer their mk1 radars. If we get the Qatari mk0 version in offer rafale will take this easily. The f-15EX is a contender but it's lifecycle cost and lack of stealth make it extremely cost prohibitive. Although f-15EX could do a bomber role. Better buying 36-54 f-15EX for China and Pakistan than wasting money on tu-22m's.

F-15EX "lack of stealth" you mean like Typhoon and Rafale? F-15EX is more capable than Rafale in everyway. I's EW is superior than Rafale's.

 

[Hydra]

F-15EX "lack of stealth" you mean like Typhoon and Rafale?

Boasting about the stealth nature of a non stealth aircraft over another non stealth is like some one telling tortoise is more agile than slug. In real life scenario that advantage doesn't matters.

F-15EX is more capable than Rafale in everyway. I's EW is superior than Rafale's.

Only a comparative evaluation will tell that.

 

[randomradio]

We will not upgrade all our mki to super sukhoi standards. Probably 100+ will not be upgraded & phase out from service. So, there is definitley a room for F15 EX of 100-120 in numbers with IAF.

We will be upgrading all MKIs.

TU160? We need a bomber, not a missile carrier.

We don't know what the IAF wants, but in the present environment, CMs and other standoff weapons have become important, whereas carpet bombing may be extremely risky.

 

[Hydra]

We will be upgrading all MKIs.



We don't know what the IAF wants, but in the present environment, CMs and other standoff weapons have become important, whereas carpet bombing may be extremely risky.

The early models of MKI will not be upgraded, read this info sometimes back.

 

[randomradio]

The early models of MKI will not be upgraded, read this info sometimes back.

They have 20-30 years of life left. The oldest jets are just 21 to 16 years old today.

 

[Lolwa]

We will not upgrade all our mki to super sukhoi standards. Probably 100+ will not be upgraded & phase out from service. So, there is definitley a room for F15 EX of 100-120 in numbers with IAF.

TU160? We need a bomber, not a missile carrier.

Technically we need the tu-160 as well as tu22 to counter Chinese h-6k's. Issue is Russia won't sell us their heavier cruise missiles.

 

[randomradio]

Technically we need the tu-160 as well as tu22 to counter Chinese h-6k's. Issue is Russia won't sell us their heavier cruise missiles.

We don't need their missiles, we can make our own. And the B-1 does both.

 

[Lolwa]

We don't need their missiles, we can make our own. And the B-1 does both.

B1 is good. I don't know if the americans will really sell us. Getting JASSM-XR's would be a huge upgrade for us.

F-15EX "lack of stealth" you mean like Typhoon and Rafale? F-15EX is more capable than Rafale in everyway. I's EW is superior than Rafale's.

We don't know. The EPAWWS is just a more powerful version of spectra. If only we could know the RCS figures of f-15EX. If it's anywhere close to the su-35 then it could beat rafale in performance evaluation but it will lose out on price. Unless Boeing offers their fabled 80 million $ price tag.

 

[Hydra]

Technically we need the tu-160 as well as tu22 to counter Chinese h-6k's. Issue is Russia won't sell us their heavier cruise missiles.

We need moder SAMs, radars & interceptor like mig 31 to counter h6.
We need bombers like B1 or B2 as a deterrent on conventional arena.

 

[randomradio]

B1 is good. I don't know if the americans will really sell us. Getting JASSM-XR's would be a huge upgrade for us.

B-1 is on offer to India, second-hand of course.

By the time we make a move towards bombers, we will have our own missiles, ramjet, scramjet and turbofan/jet, with stealth.

Our best opportunity for JASSM family was the SH deal, but that's over. We have to see if the IN plans on operating F-35Bs from their LHDs.

We don't know. The EPAWWS is just a more powerful version of spectra. If only we could know the RCS figures of f-15EX. If it's anywhere close to the su-35 then it could beat rafale in performance evaluation but it will lose out on price. Unless Boeing offers their fabled 80 million $ price tag.

F-15EX RCS reduction is quite modest, it's not the Silent Eagle. Su-35's RCS is quite modest too.

 

[Lolwa]

Boasting about the stealth nature of a non stealth aircraft over another non stealth is like some one telling tortoise is more agile than slug. In real life scenario that advantage doesn't matters.

Only a comparative evaluation will tell that.

Nah the typhoon, rafale and super hornet are lo aircrafts. The strike eagle has an RCS of 25sqm. It will be shot down in any real conflict against 4.5 gen fighters. The f-15EX most likely has an RCS between 1-5 sqm RCS optimistically that's the same as the mki and Pakistani f-16's unless Boeing has done some RCS treatment like they did for the superhornets.

 

[Hydra]

Nah the typhoon, rafale and super hornet are lo aircrafts. The strike eagle has an RCS of 25sqm. It will be shot down in any real conflict against 4.5 gen fighters. The f-15EX most likely has an RCS between 1-5 sqm RCS optimistically that's the same as the mki and Pakistani f-16's unless Boeing has done some RCS treatment like they did for the superhornets.

These so called LO are LO in its clean form. U hang weapons in battle configuration, the aircraft will be visible in screen of any 4th gen aircraft's screen at 120-150 km range. It sufficient i believe as current A2A missile's effective range is half of that abouve mentioned detection offset.
Typhoon /rafale will see EX furst, but EX will also see these aircrafts at sufficient range before both can fire missile each other.