MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 29 12.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 184 79.0%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    233
Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari, Chief of the Air Staff, Indian Air Force: "IAF plans to induct six squadrons of MRFA in a phased manner. The programme would be progressed under ‘Make in India’ initiative of DAP-2020. Responses have been received for eight aircraft types.
"ASQRs being finalised, detailed interactions with OEMs have taken place. OEM commitments for indigenous content of selected category & Make in India provisions being sought. Envisaged to integrate indigenously developed A-A & A-G weapons on MRFA being manufactured in India"

 
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Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari, Chief of the Air Staff, Indian Air Force: "IAF plans to induct six squadrons of MRFA in a phased manner. The programme would be progressed under ‘Make in India’ initiative of DAP-2020. Responses have been received for eight aircraft types.
"ASQRs being finalised, detailed interactions with OEMs have taken place. OEM commitments for indigenous content of selected category & Make in India provisions being sought. Envisaged to integrate indigenously developed A-A & A-G weapons on MRFA being manufactured in India"

He did not say it will be under any procedure as of now. That is yet to be decided. It can even be an intergovernmental agreement with "some" country. The case is still held up for AoN.

 
Frankly this has had few repeats so we know it well by now. Its a pity he was only asked about how they plan to face 5 gen airforce of adversary. Journo could have cited parliament committee recommending 5 gen jet procurement from foreign source as a stopgap and asked whether IAF want to consider this.
 
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Even as IAF moves in for 97 more Tejas, its eyes firmly set on MRFA but awaits govt signal

Rafale, F-15EX & the Gripen are the 3 main contenders with the front-runner being French Rafale fighter jets, 36 of which were inducted into the force under emergency procurement in 2016.


New Delhi: The Indian Air Force, which has moved a proposal to acquire 97 more LCA Tejas Mk1A fighter aircraft, has its eyes set on 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) for which it sees three main contenders — Rafale, F-15EX and the Gripen — ThePrint has learnt. Sources in the Indian Air Force (IAF) told ThePrint that the proposal for 97 more Tejas, over and above the 83 ordered, will have no bearing on the MRFA plans.
They said that the IAF is waiting for a signal from the government to move the file to the defence ministry. Explaining what signal the IAF was waiting for, the sources said the deal will be a strategic one and will depend on who the Narendra Modi government wants to go ahead with.

They said there are three main contenders, with the front runner being the French Rafale fighter jets, 36 of which were inducted into the IAF under an emergency procurement in 2016. Sources made it clear that one of the big factors that will come into play is how much of the aircraft will be manufactured in India. The plan is that while a small number of planes will come in fly-away condition, the rest would be manufactured in India in a phased manner, just like the C-295 aircraft deal with Airbus. Sources said due to the offset contract in the 2016 deal, under which the companies involved in the project had to invest 50 percent of the contract value back into India, Rafale manufacturer Dassault Aviation already has a head start since they are already manufacturing and sourcing from India.

Sources added that American manufacturer Boeing could be the other strategic partner. Boeing had offered the F-15EX aircraft to the IAF in 2021. The third option before the IAF is Gripen, which is a single engine aircraft, unlike the other two. Besides the three that the IAF is actively considering, there are also the F21 of the Lockheed Martin and Eurofighter in the race.

“So we are waiting for a signal from the government to understand where we should go,” the source said. Sources added that a decision will also have to be taken on the form that the contract for the MRFA will follow. A decision is yet to be taken on whether it will follow the C-295 route under which India signed a deal directly with European aircraft manufacturer Airbus. While the sanctioned strength of the IAF is 42 squadrons of fighter jets, it stands at a mere 31 as of now, with many of them comprising aircraft that are flying beyond their normal life cycle and those which will be phased out in the next few years.
 
Whomever SAP/his junior had a chat with (based on which the reporting is done) , is probably nowhere close to decision making process. This is clearly written based on sideline discussion after ACM said those words re mrfa.
 
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Would Dassault Aviation bet on the assembly of Rafale exports in India to win the super MRCA-2 contract?

October 11, 2023
Rafale 1 Workshop e1632321482713

Summary​

  1. Strategic cooperation under discussion between Paris and New Delhi
  2. Rafale assembly in India to win the MRCA-2 contract
  3. An efficient and relevant strategy for Dassault aviation and France
According to the Indian press, Dassault Aviation is considering assembling part of the Rafale from its international order book in India. If the information is not confirmed to date, it would nonetheless make a lot of sense, by adorning the French offer for the MRCA-2 contract with trappings beyond the reach of its American, Russian or Europeans.

The visit of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi to France last July, on the occasion of the July 14 celebrations, was an opportunity for Dassault Aviation to begin the final negotiations for an order for 26 Rafale M aircraft for the Rafale . Indian .
At the same time, Naval group did the same regarding the exercise of the option for three Scorpene submarines of the Kalvari class, which will be assembled in Goa to join the six ships already built and soon all in service within this same Indian navy.

Strategic cooperation under discussion between Paris and New Delhi​

But these two contracts, already spectacular, could well represent only the emerging part of the iceberg, concerning Franco-Indian defense industrial and technological cooperation in the years to come.
Already, last July, several potential cooperations had been announced, notably in the field of combat aircraft turbojets, while New Delhi aims to develop two major aircraft in the years to come, the AMCA which will replace the Su-30MKI of the Indian Air Force, and the TEDBF to equip the future Indian CATOBAR aircraft carrier .
TEDBF india

Dassault Aviation and Safran are supposed to join the development of the Twin-engined Deck-based Fighter or TEDBF, the future Indian embarked fighter.

But other subjects had also leaked, particularly in the Indian press , in particular concerning French assistance concerning the national nuclear attack submarine program.

Thus, Naval group would have declared itself enthusiastic at the idea of helping India to develop its own SNA, including through certain technology transfers, if New Delhi were to first order additional Scorpene submarines .

Even if the Indian press is deemed unreliable, often due to excess enthusiasm, the fact is that this order is well and truly underway, and that information around Franco-Indian cooperation around the Indian SSN program is being spread. more insistent every day.

Rafale assembly in India to win the MRCA-2 contract​

Therefore, when Rafale assembly site in India , to respond to orders which are accumulating beyond the production capacities of the Mérignac site, it is appropriate to pay attention to it. .

Certainly, the information relayed by the Indian site may seem suspicious. Indeed, Dassault recently maintained that its assembly line could produce 3, even 4 Rafale per month, and that the difficulties encountered today mainly came from the subcontracting chain which was unable to find the necessary financing. to follow the growth curve of aircraft sales.

However, such a communication and sales strategy would obviously make a lot of sense for Dassault Aviation which, beyond the 26 Rafale M currently under negotiation, is targeting in particular the 114 aircraft in the MRCA 2 competition.

Rafale in India
The Indian MRCA-2 contract concerns the local construction of 114 medium or light fighters to replace the IAF's Mig-21, Sepecat Jaguar and Mirage 2000 which will be withdrawn from service by 2030.

To do this, Dassault has every interest in relying on its main asset, namely its particularly well-stocked export order book, by promising to New Delhi the possibility of assembling part of this order book on the dedicated site. to the Rafale B/C and perhaps M of the Indian air and naval forces.

Indeed, none of the French aircraft's competitors, whether the American F-21 or F-15EX, the European Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen, or the Russian Su-35s, can offer such compensation. , which would make India an exporter of combat aircraft. This last point would naturally have a lot of weight on the nationalist posture of President Modi and his government.

Finally, let us note that it is probably preferable, today for Dassault Aviation, not to saturate or oversize its industrial tool around the Rafale , knowing that it will very probably have to, within a few years, produce the drone in parallel combat derivative of the Neuron mentioned by the LPM, but also to evolve the entire fleet towards F4 then F5 standards.

After which, from 2035, it will be necessary to switch to the production of NGF from the FCAS program. Finally, from the point of view of value production and employment, assembly only represents part of the value of the aircraft, the price of which is based mainly on the price of its components such as the reactors. , on-board systems as well as armament and maintenance systems.

An efficient and relevant strategy for Dassault aviation and France​

In other words, the activity transferred to India, in this hypothesis, would be very largely compensated, for France, by the order of 114 aircraft, many of the components of which will be produced in France.
Dassault aviation Rafale Neuron
In the years to come, Dassault will have to combine the assembly of new Rafale , the modernization of existing Rafale , and the production of combat drones derived from the Neuron, at its Mérignac site.

As we can see, the indiscretions obtained by the **** site are far from not supporting a careful analysis, and even fit perfectly into a possible effective commercial strategy of Dassault Aviation in India.

Considering the stakes and the fierce competition surrounding the MRCA-2 contract, we also understand that Dassault Aviation may want to favor discretion, in the same way as Naval group regarding the Indian SSN program.

It remains to be seen, now, whether this rumor and the hypotheses which result from it will actually materialize through new contracts for French industrialists, and through the strengthening of Franco-Indian cooperation in defense matters?
 

Spotlight | France, Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom Riyadh to ask for Rafale quote as Typhoon order remains in limbo

After hesitating for several months, Riyadh is set to start making its first moves towards a possible purchase of Rafale aircraft. That would bring the French fighter into direct competition with BAE Systems' Typhoon, which was Saudi Arabia's first choice.

According to our consolidated information from Riyadh, London and Paris, the Saudi Ministry of Defence is finally about to make an official request to Dassault Aviation for a quotation for the Rafale fighter aircraft. The competition is due to be launched on 10 November. Riyadh is ready to take an interest in a sale of 54 aircraft. Dassault, for its part, was hoping for demand of 100 or more. The Egyptian head of state, Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, is also in the process of requesting a further batch of Rafales to bring the total up to a hundred. This offer would compete head-on with the new batch of Typhoons from the British company BAE Systems, originally requested by Riyadh.
 
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According to our consolidated information from Riyadh, London and Paris, the Saudi Ministry of Defence is finally about to make an official request to Dassault Aviation for a quotation for the Rafale fighter aircraft. The competition is due to be launched on 10 November. Riyadh is ready to take an interest in a sale of 54 aircraft. Dassault, for its part, was hoping for demand of 100 or more. The Egyptian head of state, Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, is also in the process of requesting a further batch of Rafales to bring the total up to a hundred. This offer would compete head-on with the new batch of Typhoons from the British company BAE Systems, originally requested by Riyadh.

It's unlikely for them to go for more right away. 100+ is a political hot potato.

And Egypt's order will be pretty big too.
 
It's unlikely for them to go for more right away. 100+ is a political hot potato.

And Egypt's order will be pretty big too.
Shhhh!
  • When the Americans and the Europeans sell planes to Egypt, it is a multi-faith nation where good understanding reigns between communities and religions thanks to the just and honourable governance of His Excellency the Great General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi.
  • When France sells aircraft to Egypt, it is a bloodthirsty military dictatorship where radical Islamism reigns, threatening its democratic and totally virtuous neighbours such as Libya, Turkey, Israel and Sudan, because of the undivided rule of the ruthless dictator, the horrible General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi.
 
Shhhh!
  • When the Americans and the Europeans sell planes to Egypt, it is a multi-faith nation where good understanding reigns between communities and religions thanks to the just and honourable governance of His Excellency the Great General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi.
  • When France sells aircraft to Egypt, it is a bloodthirsty military dictatorship where radical Islamism reigns, threatening its democratic and totally virtuous neighbours such as Libya, Turkey, Israel and Sudan, because of the undivided rule of the ruthless dictator, the horrible General Abdel Fattah al-Sissi.

The reason being others significantly downgrade their jets before supply. For example, the Egyptians do not have BVR capability exceeding 85Km on F-16s, so only AIM-7. The Rafale far surpasses that limitation.

But yeah, the way they sell their propaganda is ridiculous.
 

What he is yelling? To cancell MMRCA?

Seriously, is he an agent from our enemy nation? Or else why he always against military modernisation, in the name of indigenization?
@vstoljockey
@randomradio

He talks about canceling MRFA, but doesn't explain why, just talks about stuff being planned for entry 10-15 years later.

A lot of people simply like to second guess the forces. It gets worse amongst the blind nationalistic types who'd rather protect their ego than protect their country. We saw that with Arjun, HTT-40, now ATAGS and in the near future MRFA. Especially after TEDBF and AMCA start flying, clueless people are gonna insist on canceling MRFA in a few years.
 
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Mother Of All Deals! France Sets Eyes On ‘Unfinished’ BIG TICKET 114 Rafale Fighter Contract For Indian Air Force
By Ritu Sharma -November 4, 2023

France has received a Letter of Request (LoR) from India to sell Dassault Aviation’s Rafale Marine to the Indian Navy for its aircraft carriers. The deal for 26 Rafale-Ms reaching the finish line, the French aircraft maker is setting its eyes on the big ticket, an unfinished 114-jet order for the Indian Air Force.

The LoR is like a tender document in which the Indian government has specified all its requirements and capabilities on the Rafale Marine aircraft. It will operate from aircraft carriers — INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya.

The contract signing is still some time away, as France would still evaluate the LoR and reply to India with a Letter of Acceptance or LoA before cost negotiations for the 26 jets begin. The signing of the contract is expected in 2024.

Dassault Aviation has seen the demand increase for Rafale omni-role fighter jets globally after it delivered 36 Rafales for the IAF in a government-to-government contract. Most recently, the French media claimed that Rafale has won a deal to supply 54 Rafales to Saudi Arabia after a veto from Germany dashed the chances of Eurofighter Typhoon winning the contract.

Dassault Aviation’s Rafale is competing against Boeing’s F/A-18 and F/15EX, Lockheed Martin’s F-21, SAAB’s Gripen, and three other prominent combat jets from around the world for the Indian Air Force tender — called the mother of all deals — to supply 114 Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA).

Rafale had, in 2013, won a previous tender for 126 jets, floated by the IAF in 2007, called the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) procurement program. But in 2015, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi canceled the tender, which had become unviable, and bought 36 Rafale off-the-shelf from France in a nearly US$8-billion deal. That’s why Dassault Aviation sees this MRFA for 114 jets as an “unfinished” business.

“IAF plans to induct six squadrons of MRFA in a phased manner. The program would be progressed under the ‘Make in India’ initiative of DAP-2020. Responses have been received for eight aircraft types,” IAF Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari told the Indian media. Experts, however, see the competition brewing between Dassault’s Rafale, Boeing’s F-15EX, and Saab’s JAS-39 Gripen.

“ASQRs (Air Staff Qualitative Requirements) have been finalized, and detailed interactions with OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) have taken place. OEM commitments for indigenous content of selected categories and ‘Make in India’ provisions are being sought. Envisaged to integrate indigenously developed A-A (Air-to-air) and A-G (Air-to-ground) weapons on MRFA being manufactured in India,” the IAF chief added.

The IAF floated the RFI in 2018 and got an enthusiastic response from aircraft makers worldwide for the multi-billion-dollar deal. After setting the fresh ASQRs, as the EurAsian Times earlier reported, the IAF is awaiting the government’s nod to send a proposal for an Acceptance of Necessity (AoN). For a year, there has been no movement on the MRFA deal.

Air Marshal Narmdeshwar Tiwari, the former deputy chief of the IAF, had told journalists during Aero India 2023 (held in February) that the AoN is expected from the government in the next three to four months. It has been November, and the AON has not been granted yet to the IAF, which presently has 31 squadron strengths and stares at dwindling fighter squadron strength and an aging fleet.

The IAF needs many aircraft to be recognized as a deterrence to the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). “They (the IAF) have not been able to convince the Indian government that the imported aircraft are required in such large numbers. The whole process, up to aircraft delivery, will take 6 to 7 years. By then, Tejas Mk-2 may also be ready for induction. That may be the reason for the government’s indecision,” the official offered.

The IAF, toeing the Indian government’s ‘Make in India’ policy, has already expressed the intent to order 90 more Light Combat Aircraft Mk1.

Rafale Meeting IAF’s Urgent Requirement


The IAF’s requirement for the 114 MRFA is urgent to maintain a combative edge. Rafale has the advantage that the country’s air force is already operating the aircraft, and the navy will soon be inducting it.

The experts also see the advantage here, but the IAF officials don’t see it as a foregone conclusion as the ASQRs have been set afresh. The formulation of ASQR is the most crucial stage in defense acquisition as it determines the quality, price, and competition.

“The MMRCA competition was a thoroughly conducted process. It took us years to vet every contender. For MRFA, which is just a different name for the contract, I can only expect the ‘Make in India’ could be the deciding factor,” Air Marshal (Retd) M. Matheswaran, who had overseen the MMRCA tender for the IAF before retirement, told the EurAsian Times.

The IAF had proposed in August 2000 to acquire 126 Mirage 2000 II aircraft. The proposal was discarded in 2004, and in 2007, a decision was taken to buy 126 jets under MMRCA.

For Rafale, The Deal Remains

Rafale, a twin-engine multi-role aircraft, can carry out air-to-air combat or can drop bombs on targets in air-to-ground missions, and owing to its cameras, radars, and sensors, can be used for intelligence gathering.

The aircraft development took a long time. The demonstrator flew on July 4, 1986. The program was officially launched in January 1988, the prototype took to the air on May 19, 1991, and the first Rafale F1 was delivered to the French Navy precisely a decade later, on May 18, 2001.

Since then, France has deployed this combat jet in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria, and Mali, where it flew its most extended mission in 2013, spanning nine hours and 35 minutes. Rafale’s stellar combat experience was documented in an earlier report of the EurAsian Times. From Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, Iraq & Syria, Rafale jets “outclassed” its enemies everywhere and have never-ever been shot down.

The aircraft manufacturer, Dassault Aviation, says that Rafale can carry out “the widest range of roles” with the smallest number of aircraft. It can carry long-range air-to-air Meteor, Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) MICA, long-range standoff missile SCALP, anti-ship missile AM39 Exocet, Laser-guided bombs, and classic bombs.

The Rafale participates in permanent “Quick Reaction Alert” (QRA), air defense, air policing missions, nuclear deterrence duties, power projection and deployments for external missions, deep strike missions, air support for ground forces, reconnaissance missions, and pilot training sorties. It comes in three variants: single-seater Rafale C for the Air Force, twin-seater trainer for Air Force Rafale B, and single-seater for Navy Rafale M.

Rafale B and C entered service with the French Air Force in June 2006, when the first squadron was established. The company received the development contract for the Rafale F4 standard aircraft in January 2019. The validation of the latest standard is expected in 2024.

But to win the MRFA deal, the French aerospace major will have to go beyond this and offer to ‘Make in India,’ and what transfer of technology Dassault Aviation can offer remains to be seen. And there is no denying that with France’s fighter jet market saturated, India is a significant market.