MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 31 13.1%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 187 78.9%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.5%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 9 3.8%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.8%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Total voters
    237
MRCA was floated by BJP govt in 2001 and the clear aim was to go for local assembly of M2K as the production of these aircraft was still on. In 2005 DA shut down the assemblyline of M2K and that was the time that UPA decided to change MRCA to MMRCA. That is how the whole thing got delayed.

It was in 2001 when a BJP government considered to go for a license production deal for the M2K-5, but since the then DM Fernandes didn't wanted a single vendor deal (contrary to the PM now), he prefered to go for the tender route. However, the RFI for the MRCA was issued only under the following UPA government in 2004. Then came the change to Rafale, which then opened up the tender for EF and F18SH too and in 2006/07, the RFI/RFP for the MMRCA came on.

So you can blame BJP for not making a G2G deal in 2001, or for the MMRCA disaster since 2015.

UPA, for taking too long in the MRCA (which however might had been better for IAF, to get the chance of modern fighters with long potential).

IAF, for not doing a proper shortlisting ahead of the trials, to cut the selection time.

And Dassault for the whole made up nonsense between 2012 and 2015!
 
...


- Rafale M F3R and EF Centurion upgrades operational

- Captor E AESA for Kuwait on track as planned, but now most likely with maritime attack modes and Marte ER

- Brite Cloud EAD integration confirmed for RAF Typhoons, which seems to be part of the coming EW enhancement and probably might include Captor E EA capabilites

- EF sensor testing against low RCS aircrafts

- very interesting reports on operational experience of Thai AF with Gripen C/D, availability, spare supply, Training, ToT and data links
 
Also highly interesting!!!

Now we can compare the EW requirement of the original MMRCA 1.0 ASQR (evidently also basis for the Rafale deal), to the MMRCA 2.0 RFI =>

IMG_65bgbp.jpg


Screenshot_2019-01-12-21-49-13-1.png




Seems like requirements were reduced.
 
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  • Informative
Reactions: Ashwin
It was in 2001 when a BJP government considered to go for a license production deal for the M2K-5, but since the then DM Fernandes didn't wanted a single vendor deal (contrary to the PM now), he prefered to go for the tender route. However, the RFI for the MRCA was issued only under the following UPA government in 2004. Then came the change to Rafale, which then opened up the tender for EF and F18SH too and in 2006/07, the RFI/RFP for the MMRCA came on.

So you can blame BJP for not making a G2G deal in 2001, or for the MMRCA disaster since 2015.

UPA, for taking too long in the MRCA (which however might had been better for IAF, to get the chance of modern fighters with long potential).

IAF, for not doing a proper shortlisting ahead of the trials, to cut the selection time.

And Dassault for the whole made up nonsense between 2012 and 2015!

MRCA RFI was out in 2001. MMRCA RFI came out in 2004.
 
That's not correct, AASM 125 was developed, tested and certified, it was just developed the wrong way, which made it not interesting for any customer.

A Brimstone is far more capable, not only because of range, but also because of different seekers, which makes it independent from suitable weather conditions, or the propulsion, that makes it useful in low level attack flights (same advantage AASM is advertised with). All that BAT 125 is, is a low cost, low warhead LGB => a GBU 12 with smaller warhead. That doesn't add anything to not only Brimstone, also not to Spear 3/SDB/Spice 250/Al Tariq. So at the end, Rafale will have BAT 120, AASM 250 and Smartglider, to do the same, that other fighters do with 1 to 2 types of weapon. Complete waste of resourceres, when a simple re-design of AASM would had done the trick too.
But no one AASM125 was serial produced so ar !
Brimstone seems a really nice weapon. But costly (as a AASM 125 or 250) just to destroy a Toyota alone in the desert.
And a single hard point can be used to carry up to 18 BAT120 (probably more 3, 6 or 9 in the real life). no LGB, no AASM, no Brimstone can be carried in such a Qty on a single hard point.
But it remains a very low end guided weapon, for a dedicated purpose.
 
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The development and integration contract for the Rafale F4 has been notified

Posted in Air Force, Industry by Laurent Lagneau On 14-01-2019

In March 2017, at a meeting of the Ministerial Committee on Investments, Jean-Yves Le Drian, then Minister of Defence, gave the green light to the development of the F4 version of the Rafale. All that remained was to notify the contract to launch this project. This was done on January 14.

Indeed, on January 14, Dassault Aviation's CEO, Éric Trappier, officially received the contract to develop and integrate the Rafale F4 standard during a visit by Florence Parly, the French Minister of the Armed Forces, to Mérignac, where the manufacturer has a factory. The amount of this contract is €2 billion.

"The Rafale F4 will benefit from connectivity, reliability and the ability to counter increased threats. These improvements will bring this aircraft up to the level of the latest generation aircraft and allow our air forces to maintain their superiority in increasingly contested areas," Parly had previously pointed out in an interview given to the daily Sud Ouest.

The development of this F4 standard is part of the Rafale's continuous improvement process, based on technological progress and feedback from operational staff," explains Dassault Aviation. "As an industrial architect, we will be responsible for implementing innovative connectivity solutions to optimize the effectiveness of our aircraft in network combat[new satellite and intra-patrol links, communication server, software radio]," he explains.

In addition, new functions will be developed, with developments in radar sensors and front-end sector optronics (FSO). The capabilities of the helmet viewfinder will also be improved and new weapons will be integrated[Modular Air-Ground of 1000 kg]

Improvements in Operational Condition Maintenance[OCM] are also expected. Thus, the Rafale F4 standard will rely on a new Prognostic and Diagnostic Assistance System introducing predictive maintenance capabilities. And solutions based on artificial intelligence and Big Data will be used. Finally, there is also a new "engine control unit[M88]", says Dassault Aviation.

"The F4 standard represents the assurance that the Rafale will remain at the highest level in the world so that our combat air forces can carry out all their missions in the most efficient way, whether within coalitions or in a perfectly autonomous manner as required by French nuclear deterrence," Mr. Trappier said. "This new standard also guarantees that the Rafale will remain a credible reference for exports. Finally, it confirms the continuous improvement approach and contributes to the development of industrial skills," he added.

"This standard is based on four pillars: connectivity, engagement, availability and threat detection and control," said the Minister of the Armed Forces. This F4 standard is a technological leap, an industrial leap, a strategic leap," Parly summarized. "It will be a first step for collaborative combat connected across multiple platforms and thus to the air combat system of the future[SCAF]," she said.

As the Minister pointed out, 28 additional Rafales will be delivered by 2024 and 30 others will be ordered in 2023 under the Military Programming Act[MPA] 2019-25. "These orders are the defense of France. It is its ability to intervene quickly and precisely. These orders are also activity for you. Employment, for you, for our industry," she justified.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Le contrat de développement et d’intégration du Rafale F4 a été notifié
 
MRCA RFI was out in 2001. MMRCA RFI came out in 2004.

The usual misinformations from you, the MRCA "tender", was started only after UPA came to power in 2004 =>

WHY MMRCA?
Issue: 6 / 2013By Air Marshal (Retd) B.K. Pandey

...
The Tendering Process

As a first step, in 2004, request for information (RFI) was issued to four vendors, namely Dassault Aviation (Mirage 2000-5 Mk II), Lockheed Martin (F16 C&D Block 52+ also referred to as the F 16IN), Saab (JAS 39 Gripen) and Mikoyan (MiG-29 OVT)...
Why MMRCA? - SP's Aviation

In 2001, the BJP government was considering a direct procurement of M2Ks.
 
But no one AASM125 was serial produced so ar !

True, the serial production didn't started, because there was no order, but the version is developed and tested, contrary to AASM 1000 or 2000. So the weapon was developed, just in a useless way.

And a single hard point can be used to carry up to 18 BAT120

That's the total number a Rafale can carry on 3 weapon stations (+ fuel tanks of course)

Thales Begins Laser-guided Munition Tests

Thomson Brandt developed the SEMB (système d’emport multi bombe, multiple bomb carriage system) launcher for the original BAT-120, with two rows of three closely mounted weapons.
Thales Begins Laser-guided Munition Tests

So just as for smart glider, 3 x 6 weapons = 18 at max!

BAT 120 = low cost, laser guided, low collateral damage weapon with no propulsion or wing kit

AASM L with BLU 126 and no propulsion kit = low cost, laser guided, low collateral damage weapon with no propulsion or wing kit

Or the smarter thing to do, re-design AASM 125 with less or retractable fins and a wing kit, add the laser seeker and you have a => low cost, laser guided, low collateral damage weapon with no propulsion - but a wing kit for extended range. => SDB/Spear 3 competitior with SEAD capability.
 
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The usual misinformations from you, the MRCA "tender", was started only after UPA came to power in 2004 =>


Why MMRCA? - SP's Aviation

In 2001, the BJP government was considering a direct procurement of M2Ks.

domain-b.com : RFP for IAF's multi role combat aircraft pushed back further
RFP for IAF's multi role combat aircraft pushed back furthernews
10x10spacer.gif
02 May 2007

The request for proposal (RFP) for 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) may likely be issued by July, reports quoting government officials suggest. This year marks the sixth since a request for information (RFI) was issued for the tender in 2001.

https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/164294/IB_MMRCA-vkapur.pdf
Subsequently, MMRCA Request for Information (RFI) was issued in 2001 and the tender was issued in August 2007.
 
domain-b.com : RFP for IAF's multi role combat aircraft pushed back further
RFP for IAF's multi role combat aircraft pushed back furthernews
10x10spacer.gif
02 May 2007

The request for proposal (RFP) for 126 multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) may likely be issued by July, reports quoting government officials suggest. This year marks the sixth since a request for information (RFI) was issued for the tender in 2001.

https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/164294/IB_MMRCA-vkapur.pdf
Subsequently, MMRCA Request for Information (RFI) was issued in 2001 and the tender was issued in August 2007.

And that's the problem with random statements, that are based on random articles, without any understanding. 😥
 
@Sancho, your post about MRCA and M2K deal are wrong. M2K was purchased in a single vendor situation as part of G2G deal by Late Rajiv Gandhi. The 2001 deal was for manufacture of them in India. But Fernandes wrongly called it single vendor and wanted bribes. He was not from BJP but a coalition partner and needed his pound of flesh. Rest is history. Just the way we had Mig-21 assemblyline in India give way to kit assembly of Mig-23BNs and Mig-27s, M2K line could have resulted in assembly of Rafale as a follow up of M2K in India.
 
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That's the total number a Rafale can carry on 3 weapon stations (+ fuel tanks of course)
An operationnal Rafale config may be : 2 hard pylons with these BAT120 (a possible grand total of 36) and 3 x 2000L tanks.
Another : the central pylon with 18 BAT120, 2 external tanks, 2 x 3 AASM : for light to medium targets, frow low to medium range.

PS : The french Jaguar was flying with a pack of 2X3X3 BAT120 = 18 weapons on a single ventral station. 34kg each => 612kg + mast.
 
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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

The second article was written by an IAF Group Captain.

Lol as suppose to an air marshal? But the really funny thing is, that you don't even understand, what the issue with your claim is.

Let me give you a hint =>

First F2 Rafale C delivered
  • 14 JUNE, 2005
So in your fantasy world, we asked for a Rafale F3+, years before even the first Rafale F2 was available. 😂
 
An operationnal Rafale config may be : 2 hard pylons with these BAT120 (a possible grand total of 36)

And again, it's only 6 weapons per hard point, so 18 max and interestingly the press releases of F4 doesn't include BAT 120 or smart glider, but AASM 1000.
 
And again, it's only 6 weapons per hard point, so 18 max and interestingly the press releases of F4 doesn't include BAT 120 or smart glider, but AASM 1000.
NO.
The BAT120, with or without laser seeker, can be embarked by 18 : 2 groups of 3 on 3 layers.

Is it usefull to bring 18 on a single hardpoint is another question.
1547564433028.png

x9 or x18
1547564458271.png

x12
 
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