MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 31 13.1%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 187 78.9%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.5%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 9 3.8%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 9 3.8%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • Total voters
    237
Lol as suppose to an air marshal? But the really funny thing is, that you don't even understand, what the issue with your claim is.

There are two separate programs.

MRCA = F-16, M-2000 and Gripen C. It came with a 20T weight limit. RFI released in 2001. RFP never released.

MMRCA = F-16, Gripen E, Rafale, Typhoon, SH, Mig-35. Weight limit increased to 30T. RFI released in 2004. RFP in 2007.

Let me give you a hint =>

So in your fantasy world, we asked for a Rafale F3+, years before even the first Rafale F2 was available. 😂

You are in confused land.
 
Launch of the New “Standard F4” for the Rafale Omnirole Combat Aircraft

(Source: French Defense Procurement Agency, DGA; issued Jan 21, 2019)


(L to R) French Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly; Dassault Aviation Chairman and Chief Executive Eric Trappier and Chief Executive of the French DGA, Joël Barre, pose with the Rafale F4 development contract (Dassault Aviation photo).

On January 14, 2019, French Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, announced the award of a contract for the development and integration of the so-called “Rafale F4”: the new Standard for the Rafale omnirole combat aircraft, which will be delivered to the warfighters in 2023 (first step) and in 2025 (last step).

The Rafale program is evolving through the development and the implementation of successive “Standards”, each of them bringing improved performances and additional capabilities to the Rafale omnirole combat aircraft, in order to match perfectly the evolution of the operational requirements from the warfighters.

The most recent Standard, called “Rafale F3-R”, was officially qualified on October 31, 2018, by the French Defense Procurement Agency (DGA). It contains important software and hardware evolutions and adds three new major and genuinely game-changing capabilities to the Rafale: the full integration of the Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM) MBDA “Meteor”; the integration of the new-generation Thales “TALIOS” laser targeting pod; and the full integration of the Safran AASM “HAMMER” air-to-ground modular weapon in its laser terminal guidance version (NATO designation: SBU-54).

The new Standard officially launched on January 14, 2019, “Rafale F4”, is based on the four following pillars:

• Enhanced connectivity and associated networking modes:
Collaborative combat is now crucial for taking part in coalition operations, countering new types of threats and conducting sovereignty operations.

The Rafale F4 will be a genuine “connected aircraft”, implementing innovative connectivity solutions to optimize its operational effectiveness in networked/collaborative combat, with new satellite and intra-flight data-links, communication server and software-defined radio. Its ability to collect, analyze and share data will constitute a powerful force multiplier that will enhance all airborne, surface and ground-based assets in the battlespace.

• Enhanced survivability:
The sensors of the Rafale will be improved in order to maintain the aircraft’s operational capabilities and survivability against new and future threats. Improvements will mainly concern the RBE2 AESA (Active Electronically-Scanned Array) radar in the air-to-ground mode (noteworthy is the fact that the Rafale is the only European combat aircraft in operational service to incorporate today the cutting-edge “AESA” radar technology), the integrated advanced self-protection and countermeasures system (SPECTRA electronic warfare system) with new threat detection and jamming capabilities, and the multi-spectral Front Sector Optronics (FSO).

• Enhanced lethality and weapons capability
The Rafale F4 will mainly add:
-- the air-to-air missile MBDA “MICA NG” (with an infrared seeker or a radio frequency seeker), which will be delivered from 2026 onwards;

-- the Safran AASM “HAMMER” air-to-ground modular weapon with a 1,000 kg bomb body;

-- the MLR (Mid-Life Refurbishment) version of the MBDA “SCALP” long-range cruise missile, which will be delivered from 2020 onwards.

• Enhanced operational readiness and in-service support

The Rafale F4 will include a new Prognosis and Diagnostic Aid System introducing predictive maintenance capabilities (the purpose of predictive maintenance is to anticipate failures before they occur). Other maintenance optimization features are scheduled, particularly with solutions based on Big Data and artificial intelligence. Lastly, the aircraft will be equipped with a new control unit for the Safran M88 engine.

Florence Parly, French Minister of the Armed Forces, said: “These F4 Standard improvements will bring the Rafale to the highest level of combat aircraft capability worldwide, and will allow our national forces to keep relevant their air dominance in more and more contested environments.”

Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, said: “The F4 Standard guarantees that Rafale will remain at world-class level so that our combat air forces can carry out all their missions with optimum efficiency, whether in coalition operations or completely independently.”

Patrice Caine, Chairman and CEO of Thales, said: “The Rafale F4 Standard's sensors and communication systems will be a key driver of the shift towards collaborative combat.”


The Rafale is an extremely effective new-generation, combat proven (Afghanistan, Libya, Mali, Central African Republic, Iraq, and Syria; more than 40,000 flying hours in combat operations have been completed so far by the Rafale fleet) omnirole tactical fighter, but development is continuing apace to exploit more and more of the aircraft’s tremendous capabilities, and to seamlessly add new ones.

BACKGROUND NOTES

1. The Rafale will ultimately replace all the current types of legacy fighter aircraft in the inventory of the French Air Force and the French Navy.

2. To date, 180 production aircraft have been ordered for the French Air Force (in two versions: the single-seater Rafale C and the two-seater Rafale B) and for the French Navy (the single-seater Rafale M). Since 2015, 96 Rafale aircraft have also been ordered for the Egyptian Air Force (24 aircraft), for the Qatar Emiri Air Force (36 aircraft) and for the Indian Air Force (36 aircraft).

3. As of January 21, 2019, 152 production aircraft have been delivered to the French warfighters (46 Rafales M for the Navy; 48 Rafales C and 58 Rafales B for the Air Force) and 23 Rafales have been delivered to the Egyptian Air Force.

4. Missions of the Rafale omnirole fighter:
The Rafale has been designed to perform the full spectrum of combat aircraft missions:
-- air defense and air superiority;
-- close air support;
-- deep strike;
-- anti-ship attack;
-- nuclear strike;
-- real time tactical and strategic reconnaissance (ground and naval targets);
-- in-flight refuelling (“buddy-buddy” tanker capability).

-ends-

Launch of the New “Standard F4” for the Rafale Omnirole Combat Aircraft
 
It was in 2001 when a BJP government considered to go for a license production deal for the M2K-5, but since the then DM Fernandes didn't wanted a single vendor deal (contrary to the PM now), he prefered to go for the tender route. However, the RFI for the MRCA was issued only under the following UPA government in 2004. Then came the change to Rafale, which then opened up the tender for EF and F18SH too and in 2006/07, the RFI/RFP for the MMRCA came on.

So you can blame BJP for not making a G2G deal in 2001, or for the MMRCA disaster since 2015.

UPA, for taking too long in the MRCA (which however might had been better for IAF, to get the chance of modern fighters with long potential).

IAF, for not doing a proper shortlisting ahead of the trials, to cut the selection time.

And Dassault for the whole made up nonsense between 2012 and 2015!
Here you are saying RFI was issued in 2004.
 
However when I am going through official PDF, it refers to 2001 as originally RFI and later on multiple delays in RFP. Document is taken from Indian Air Force website.
 
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Ate you suggesting/inferring that there were 2 separate RFI were issued, 1st in 2001 and 2nd in 2004?
 
No mention of GaN or side arrays so far.
the Arleigh burke destroyers are fitted with a AN/SPY-1 radar system. It's a system, not 4 antennas.
Rafale radar is the same : a sytem, made of 1,3, maybe more antennas, including the furtur side arrays.
The main move was to swith PESA to AESA. GaN is a component of AESA. Once you master an AESA antennae, it's piece of cake to use GaN.
For this time, GaN is too costly, and the only near futur use is the Spectra system. It's on the way.
 
For this time, GaN is too costly, and the only near futur use is the Spectra system. It's on the way.

Well, French forumers kept saying something different so far and keep in mind, that GaN was initially even planned for F3R Spectra upgrades, which never came. That's one reason why Saabs Arexis is ahead now and without GaN and side arrays, RBE 2 can't keep up with Captor E and Raven AESAs.

Besides that, the lack of Smart Glider is more worrying for Rafale, because being limited to AASM 250, it's SEAD capability is more than limited. A fighter that is specifically designed with pre-emptive strikes in mind, sadly limited by useless upgrades.
 
However when I am going through official PDF, it refers to 2001 as originally RFI and later on multiple delays in RFP. Document is taken from Indian Air Force website.

There were two tenders:

RFI for one was released in 2001. It had M-2000, F-16 and Gripen C participating in it. It had a 20T MTOW limit. It was called MRCA. It was withdrawn by the UPA. Or rather UPA was supposed to release the RFP in 2005, but it didn't materialise.

RFI for the second was released in 2004. It had all the other contenders, including Rafale, SH etc. The 20T limit was raised to 30T in order to keep MKI out. The RFP was released in 2007. This was the MMRCA tender.

Basically, IAF had a requirement for both types. MRCA eventually gave way to SE MII with Gripen E and F-16 B70 participating, but it didn't go anywhere because of MCA's development.
 
Well, French forumers kept saying something different so far and keep in mind, that GaN was initially even planned for F3R Spectra upgrades, which never came. That's one reason why Saabs Arexis is ahead now and without GaN and side arrays, RBE 2 can't keep up with Captor E and Raven AESAs.

Besides that, the lack of Smart Glider is more worrying for Rafale, because being limited to AASM 250, it's SEAD capability is more than limited. A fighter that is specifically designed with pre-emptive strikes in mind, sadly limited by useless upgrades.
GaN for Spectra is in the pipe. It's sure. Maybe already on serial french planes.
Captor E : we will speak about it when the first will have been delivered to an air force (some times to wait :ROFLMAO: )
Raven AESA : same.
 
GaN for Spectra is in the pipe.

In the pipeline for years, just as LEA, but nothing happened and in the meantime the competition pushes ahead. I would be surprised, if after Arexis, DASS/Pretorian will pass Spectra with the coming P4E upgrade too. Brite Cloud is already confirmed for 2020, IR MAWS as well as EA upgrade under consideration for partners


RBE2 AESA : 5 years on duty and no european competitor on the field....

#sancho : :sneaky:

5 years on duty because the PESA was shitty. You simply can't deny the facts of larger size and wide field of regard. RBE 2 was suppose to counter that, with GaN and side arrays, not with additional A2G modes.
 
Or rather UPA was supposed to release the RFP in 2005, but it didn't materialise.

RFI for the second was released in 2004.


Lol now you confused yourself with your fantasy story . MMRCA RFI before the RFP for MRCA was suppose to be released? 😂😂😂
 
😁 Usually 2 comes after 1 (if the RFP didn't happened in 2005, the new RFI would come after than), but then again in your made up world anything is possible.

I don't think you understand a lot, but just to make it clear IAF has two different requirements. One for Gripen class and another for Rafale class.

MRCA and MMRCA should have run simultaneously, with a few years difference between them.

Now we will run MMRCA and MCA simultaneously instead. An indigenous program is better than the Gripen/F-16 import for obvious reasons. That's why HAL got/will get directly nominated for 108 MCA, which will cross 200 eventually.

Which means, the UPA should have kept MRCA running while also preparing a separate tender for MMRCA. But MRCA was withdrawn because the French withdrew the M-2000. It's not either/or. Different story that we couldn't have been able to afford 2 programs simultaneously, especially with MKI also running in parallel, but now we can, at least when the MMRCA and MCA start delivering after 2025.

Gripen and F-16 continued in MMRCA because they couldn't kick them out once they were already in through MRCA. Even AM Matheswaran has confirmed that. So they were obviously not going to get shortlisted.

I hope this makes it clear.