Which is exactly what Rafale can do since a certain program (tiangulation between planes via L16. Please remember France has its own waveform within L16)
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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Which is exactly what Rafale can do since a certain program (tiangulation between planes via L16. Please remember France has its own waveform within L16)
Rafale also is able to take off from a STOBAR and the Indian version will have (in september) a new OSF with a long range IRST...
As Rafale is already ordered, as Rafale is tailored for MMRCA2, as Dassault has a plant in India and is near the first production of Rafale components, as the US products are or too old or non FOC, as Gripen is a Tejas killer, as EF is too costly and not evolutive, the MMRCA2 winner will be Rafale.
The IN requirement will be more interesting : SH18 or Rafale? The competition is more open.
The SH is not a good idea for either the IAF or the IN.
In fact, I won't be worried about it, they won't make the shortlist due to the age of the technology. This is gonna be a Typhoon vs Rafale contest again.
And I agree with you on the Rafales. We need 2-4 squadrons ASAP, all built in India, along with the 3 squadrons the IN needs. I hope there's a GTG for 2 more squadrons in 2021 and 2 more squadrons before the end of the term, both deals for F4.2. The second contract will take care of any delays from MMRCA.
He says: "It is in fact a tribute to the F-16’s potency that the IAF wants to avoid engaging it in a dogfight and would prefer to take it out at longer ranges".. which is exactly what the F-16s tried by firing multiple amraams at su-30 mki from 60 km away. It was the sudden appearance of mig-21 in Visual range dog fight that surprised PAF.
And then he contradicts his earlier statement, and goes on to say "IAF is now convinced that its reliance on dogfights is valid "
The guy is too clever by half. But he does come out with decent perceptives every once in a while. He's a bit like Bharat Karnad with twice the bombast and little technical knowledge to back it. From being supportive of the S-400 deal till a month ago, he's now doing a flip flop suggesting we've got it just to develop counter measures to it in case of a conflict with the Chinese.
Agree.. I liked his take on why Trump said what he said on Kashmir... But, he tries to be too cute sometimes..
Started well, and then fell flat on his face later on. It's like two different people wrote it.
European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops
Henri-Pierre Grolleau, Paris and Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Navy International
01 August 2019
A concept graphic of the future fighter and unmanned aircraft that France is developing with Germany and Spain under the FCAS project. Source: Dassault
The manned New Generation Fighter (NGF) component of the Future Combat Air System/Système de Combat Aérien Futur (FCAS/SCAF) being jointly developed by Dassault Aviation and Airbus will be optimised for carrier operations from the outset, a source close to the programme has confirmed to Jane's .
The NGF will follow a similar development path to that of the three variants of the Dassault Rafale fighter, the source added.
Engineers will take into account the lessons learnt from the Dassault Étendard, Super Étendard, and Rafale programmes for corrosion resistance and catapult shots/deck landings compatibility. During carrier landings, large loads are inflicted upon the airframe when impacting the flight deck. The paths through which these shocks and impact loads are absorbed will have to be carefully engineered, the source said.
On the Rafale, it was decided to build the strength required for carrier operations into the basic airframe, negating the need for structural enhancements that would be heavy and thus limit performance. Although it is too early to speculate on the final design of the NGF aircraft, the source confirmed that similar choices are likely to be made once detailed design work begins.
Electromagnetic compatibility is another major constraint on carriers as ship-borne radars and radios generate strong electromagnetic signals. To resist these, the Rafale's electronic systems are protected by dedicated shielding and high-quality connectors. All these components also protect the Rafale against the powerful electromagnetic pulse that could be generated by either a nuclear explosion or a new generation of pulse/micro-wave weapons. The NGF will benefit from the same level of protection, said the source.
For carrier operations, the NGF will need to be equipped with a landing gear capable of absorbing a 6.5 m/sec sink-rate and, like the Rafale, will be fitted with a launch-bar for the catapult.
European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops | Jane's 360
Henri-Pierre Grolleau, Paris and Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Navy International
01 August 2019
A concept graphic of the future fighter and unmanned aircraft that France is developing with Germany and Spain under the FCAS project. Source: Dassault
The manned New Generation Fighter (NGF) component of the Future Combat Air System/Système de Combat Aérien Futur (FCAS/SCAF) being jointly developed by Dassault Aviation and Airbus will be optimised for carrier operations from the outset, a source close to the programme has confirmed to Jane's .
The NGF will follow a similar development path to that of the three variants of the Dassault Rafale fighter, the source added.
Engineers will take into account the lessons learnt from the Dassault Étendard, Super Étendard, and Rafale programmes for corrosion resistance and catapult shots/deck landings compatibility. During carrier landings, large loads are inflicted upon the airframe when impacting the flight deck. The paths through which these shocks and impact loads are absorbed will have to be carefully engineered, the source said.
On the Rafale, it was decided to build the strength required for carrier operations into the basic airframe, negating the need for structural enhancements that would be heavy and thus limit performance. Although it is too early to speculate on the final design of the NGF aircraft, the source confirmed that similar choices are likely to be made once detailed design work begins.
Electromagnetic compatibility is another major constraint on carriers as ship-borne radars and radios generate strong electromagnetic signals. To resist these, the Rafale's electronic systems are protected by dedicated shielding and high-quality connectors. All these components also protect the Rafale against the powerful electromagnetic pulse that could be generated by either a nuclear explosion or a new generation of pulse/micro-wave weapons. The NGF will benefit from the same level of protection, said the source.
For carrier operations, the NGF will need to be equipped with a landing gear capable of absorbing a 6.5 m/sec sink-rate and, like the Rafale, will be fitted with a launch-bar for the catapult.
European FCAS fighter to be optimised for carrier ops | Jane's 360
Lockheed Martin willing to partner India on LCA Tejas Mk-II & AMCA
F-21 offer is complementary to the LCA, campaign lead Dr Vivek Lall tells Vishal Thapar in an exclusive interview
August 3, 2019
Photo(s): By Lockheed Martin
The world's largest defence contractor does not believe that the Indian Air Force (IAF) commitment to the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) kills the market for foreign single-engine fighters in India. While pitching the F-21, Lockheed Martin is also offering technical assistance to increase the production rate of the LCA.
With its F-21 campaign pegged on a robust Make in India proposition, Lockheed Martin brought 26 Tier 1 suppliers for the F-16/F-21 to its Indian Suppliers Conference at New Delhi recently to dialogue with 70 shortlisted Indian companies in the run up to the Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) competition. Excerpts from the interview with Dr Vivek Lall, Vice-President Aeronautics Strategy and Business Development, Lockheed Martin:
Vishal Thapar (SP's Aviation): What sort of Transfer of Technology (ToT) and partnerships are you discussing at the Indian Suppliers Conference?
Dr Vivek Lall (VL): We've got 26 of our Tier 1 suppliers here as well as over 70 indian companies here. This 3-day conference will have more than 540 meetings. The whole idea is to continue to build the aerospace eco-system here in India, so that once we're are tasked to build a fighter, we have all the building blocks here, and the suppliers vetted, not just us but also our Tier 1s.
So, there's a ToT and the indigenous content bit. ToT is dependent upon ability to absorb technology. It's a range of ToT being looked at depending upon the component.
At our 2 JVs at Hyderabad, we have delivered 108 C-130 empennages, over 150 Sikorsky S-92 cabins. The 5,000+precision components that go into the Sikorsky cabins have all been indigenised. That shows the progress made in indigenisation.
As we announced last year, all future wing production of the F-16s, regardless of the outcome of the competition, will be done jointly with the Tatas. The manufacture of the prototype wing has already started.
Once the EoI (Expression of Interest) is out (for the MRFA programme), we'll be able to better define what ToT is included in our offer. We'll be completely compliant with the Indian requirements and the intent is to create an indigenous fighter platform here in India just like we've done in other countries. We're proven to do that.
SP's Aviation: What attributes are you looking for in potential partners?
VL: Our Strategic Partner for the F-21 programme is Tata. We've had a great experience with 2 JVs with Tata in producing the C-130 empennage and the S-92 cabins over the last 10 years for the global supply chain and as we've fleshed out that eco system, what we're looking for obviously is performance, capability, quality, cost schedule but above all, a vision of the roadmap of technology absorption as well as take not just the present project but what's the future and put this in the wrapper of integrity and shared common values.
In any robust eco-system, the founding blocks are those of MSMEs and so it's very imp for them to come up the value chain in terms of their expertise. And as we go over 200 companies in India. we've found that expertise, pockets of excellence, in terms of being able to deliver. So we look at the same attributes across the supply chain. We've incubated a lot of start-up companies for the Tata programme.
With the F-21, we're offering participation in global production, and the global demand to be fulfilled from India through a long-term partnership. Lockheed Martin is the only company with operational 5th Generation platforms. So, all that learning, roadmaps are leveraged by all our platforms. We seek to bring these technologies into a robust Make in India programme.
We have a dedicated team performing Indian supplier onsite assessments. We have found over 200 companies in India. The Suppliers Conference is an opportunity for Tier 1s to have a dialogue with Indian industry.
SP's Aviation: You seem fairly committed to the Tatas. But the Indian Strategic Partner for the F-21 programme has to be selected by the Government of India. Are you flexible in your choice of a partner for this competition?
VL: We have two very successful JVs with the Tatas over the last 10 years. All future wing production for the F-16s globally will also be done with the Tatas. For the F-21, we are strategic partners. But obviously, as the competition plays out, we will be following the Government of India guidelines and we will be compliant.
SP's Aviation: Under this Strategic Partner model, foreign OEMs are allowed to be part of multiple bids. Should Tata not make it, would you be willing to go with another group?
VL: That's a hypothetical question. But suffice it to say we've talked to over 200 companies in India and it (Tata)is our Strategic Partner along with an entire eco system. That's why we're doing these supplier conferences (together).
SP's Aviation: How would the entry of Public Sector Undertakings (PSU)s in a Strategic Partnership programme change the competition?
VL: These are hypothetical questions. We'll wait for the EoI and RFP to come out and comply with Government of India guidelines, but suffice it to say that we're interfacing with both private and public companies. In fact, recently, we've signed an MoU with BEML. That's a public company, and so, we're talking across the spectrum, and once the requirement becomes clear from the Government of India, we will comply with them.
Here (at the Suppliers Conference), we have both public and private companies present. I think to have a robust eco system, it's less about the ownership and more about the capability to perform and absorb technology, and those are some of the factors that go into a successful programme that could be public or private. Whatever drives competitiveness in Indian industry is good.
SP's Aviation: While this is indeed a hypothetical question, your competition, Boeing has already tied up with the public sector HAL, which is the only one which has existing manufacturing facilities. Doesn't that put you at a disadvantage?
VL: No, I think we have the best Make in India offer on the table. We have the most robust package. Not only that, if you look at the sustainment market, we have the world's largest fighter eco system: 3000+ fighters flying. So, when you look at the after sales support and the MRO market, the scale that we have to offer India to plug into this eco system is completely unmatched by any competitor.
SP's Aviation: The IAF has a big commitment to the indigenous LCA Tejas fighter. Will this kill the market for foreign single engine aircraft in India?
VL: The LCA is an Air Defence asset. The F-21 is Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft. And so, the operational profiles are different. The F-21 flies farther. It stays on station longer, and it gets there faster. So, it has a very different operational profile. The F-21 is very complementary to the Tejas. We've also extended our support, in any way possible, to the Government of India on the LCA.
SP's Aviation: Does that mean there's potential for (international) cooperation on the LCA Mk-II?
VL: Absolutely. We're willing to work with the Government of India whether it's the LCA Mk2 or AMCA.
SP's Aviation: What's your offer?
VL: Depends upon their requirements. And we will work with the Government of India. Everything is caveated to US Government approval and what the Government of India desires a foreign OEM to assist with.
SP's Aviation: You are a seasoned observer of the Indian scene. What could be the possible areas of cooperation on the LCA or AMCA? What could be on offer?
VL: We have a system called the Auto GICAS, which is a collision avoidance system. It can be integrated on to the Indian platform. It's a unique system that saves lives. It's able to correct when the pilot is disoriented. The other technical expertise can be in terms of increasing production rates and capacities.
SP's Aviation: Lockheed Martin's earlier offer of the F-16 in the MMRCA programme was not found technically compliant. How is the F-21 offer different in capability terms?
VL: So, there are several unique aspects to the F-21. One is that it's the only aircraft in the world with dual re-fuelling - both the probe and drogue and the boom re-fueller. The second aspect is that it has an India unique EW suite. The third thing is that it has 40 per cent more weapon carrying capability through the triple rail launcher that we have on the F-21. Then, we've added an aft dorsal fin which gives increased growth capacity to it, and finally it's got a modern cockpit.
SP's Aviation: The capabilities of the competing fighters in the fray were extensively tested in the earlier MMRCA comptition. Will it be the Make in India industrial offer which will be the deal clincher in this competition?
VL: As I just mentioned, the capability is quite different in the F-21 than what used to be there in Block 70. But indeed, having a very robust Make in India programme and a robust supply chain is very much part of this process. So, Make in India, Startup India, Skill India - all Government initiatives - are priorities, and this programme addresses them.
SP's Aviation: Will the F-21 lead in to the F-35?
VL: To start with, the F-35 would be a government-to-government conversation. I can't really comment on that. But having said that, Lockheed Martin is the only company in the world which has two operational 5th Generation fighters. All these technologies are leveraged for the F-21 platforms.
Lockheed Martin willing to partner India on LCA Tejas Mk–II & AMCA - SP's Aviation
F-21 offer is complementary to the LCA, campaign lead Dr Vivek Lall tells Vishal Thapar in an exclusive interview
August 3, 2019
Photo(s): By Lockheed Martin
The world's largest defence contractor does not believe that the Indian Air Force (IAF) commitment to the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) kills the market for foreign single-engine fighters in India. While pitching the F-21, Lockheed Martin is also offering technical assistance to increase the production rate of the LCA.
With its F-21 campaign pegged on a robust Make in India proposition, Lockheed Martin brought 26 Tier 1 suppliers for the F-16/F-21 to its Indian Suppliers Conference at New Delhi recently to dialogue with 70 shortlisted Indian companies in the run up to the Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) competition. Excerpts from the interview with Dr Vivek Lall, Vice-President Aeronautics Strategy and Business Development, Lockheed Martin:
Vishal Thapar (SP's Aviation): What sort of Transfer of Technology (ToT) and partnerships are you discussing at the Indian Suppliers Conference?
Dr Vivek Lall (VL): We've got 26 of our Tier 1 suppliers here as well as over 70 indian companies here. This 3-day conference will have more than 540 meetings. The whole idea is to continue to build the aerospace eco-system here in India, so that once we're are tasked to build a fighter, we have all the building blocks here, and the suppliers vetted, not just us but also our Tier 1s.
So, there's a ToT and the indigenous content bit. ToT is dependent upon ability to absorb technology. It's a range of ToT being looked at depending upon the component.
"The LCA is an Air Defence asset. The F-21 is Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft. And so, the operational profiles are different. The F-21 flies farther. It stays on station longer, and it gets there faster. So, it has a very different operational profile. The F-21 is very complementary to the Tejas. We've also extended our support, in any way possible, to the Government of India on the LCA"
At our 2 JVs at Hyderabad, we have delivered 108 C-130 empennages, over 150 Sikorsky S-92 cabins. The 5,000+precision components that go into the Sikorsky cabins have all been indigenised. That shows the progress made in indigenisation.
As we announced last year, all future wing production of the F-16s, regardless of the outcome of the competition, will be done jointly with the Tatas. The manufacture of the prototype wing has already started.
Once the EoI (Expression of Interest) is out (for the MRFA programme), we'll be able to better define what ToT is included in our offer. We'll be completely compliant with the Indian requirements and the intent is to create an indigenous fighter platform here in India just like we've done in other countries. We're proven to do that.
SP's Aviation: What attributes are you looking for in potential partners?
VL: Our Strategic Partner for the F-21 programme is Tata. We've had a great experience with 2 JVs with Tata in producing the C-130 empennage and the S-92 cabins over the last 10 years for the global supply chain and as we've fleshed out that eco system, what we're looking for obviously is performance, capability, quality, cost schedule but above all, a vision of the roadmap of technology absorption as well as take not just the present project but what's the future and put this in the wrapper of integrity and shared common values.
"We have a system called the Auto GICAS, which is a collision avoidance system. It can be integrated on to the Indian platform. It's a unique system that saves lives. It's able to correct when the pilot is disoriented. The other technical expertise can be in terms of increasing production rates and capacities"
In any robust eco-system, the founding blocks are those of MSMEs and so it's very imp for them to come up the value chain in terms of their expertise. And as we go over 200 companies in India. we've found that expertise, pockets of excellence, in terms of being able to deliver. So we look at the same attributes across the supply chain. We've incubated a lot of start-up companies for the Tata programme.
With the F-21, we're offering participation in global production, and the global demand to be fulfilled from India through a long-term partnership. Lockheed Martin is the only company with operational 5th Generation platforms. So, all that learning, roadmaps are leveraged by all our platforms. We seek to bring these technologies into a robust Make in India programme.
We have a dedicated team performing Indian supplier onsite assessments. We have found over 200 companies in India. The Suppliers Conference is an opportunity for Tier 1s to have a dialogue with Indian industry.
"There are several unique aspects to the F-21. One is that it's the only aircraft in the world with dual re-fuelling - both the probe and drogue and the boom re-fueller. The second aspect is that it has an India unique EW suite. The third thing is that it has 40 per cent more weapon carrying capability through the triple rail launcher that we have on the F-21. Then, we've added an aft dorsal fin which gives increased growth capacity to it, and finally it's got a modern cockpit"
SP's Aviation: You seem fairly committed to the Tatas. But the Indian Strategic Partner for the F-21 programme has to be selected by the Government of India. Are you flexible in your choice of a partner for this competition?
VL: We have two very successful JVs with the Tatas over the last 10 years. All future wing production for the F-16s globally will also be done with the Tatas. For the F-21, we are strategic partners. But obviously, as the competition plays out, we will be following the Government of India guidelines and we will be compliant.
SP's Aviation: Under this Strategic Partner model, foreign OEMs are allowed to be part of multiple bids. Should Tata not make it, would you be willing to go with another group?
VL: That's a hypothetical question. But suffice it to say we've talked to over 200 companies in India and it (Tata)is our Strategic Partner along with an entire eco system. That's why we're doing these supplier conferences (together).
"To start with, the F-35 would be a government-to-government conversation. I can't really comment on that. But having said that, Lockheed Martin is the only company in the world which has two operational 5th Generation fighters. All these technologies are leveraged for the F-21 platform"
SP's Aviation: How would the entry of Public Sector Undertakings (PSU)s in a Strategic Partnership programme change the competition?
VL: These are hypothetical questions. We'll wait for the EoI and RFP to come out and comply with Government of India guidelines, but suffice it to say that we're interfacing with both private and public companies. In fact, recently, we've signed an MoU with BEML. That's a public company, and so, we're talking across the spectrum, and once the requirement becomes clear from the Government of India, we will comply with them.
Here (at the Suppliers Conference), we have both public and private companies present. I think to have a robust eco system, it's less about the ownership and more about the capability to perform and absorb technology, and those are some of the factors that go into a successful programme that could be public or private. Whatever drives competitiveness in Indian industry is good.
"We've got 26 of our Tier 1 suppliers here as well as over 70 indian companies here. This 3-day conference will have more than 540 meetings. The whole idea is to continue to build the aerospace eco-system here in India, so that once we're are tasked to build a fighter, we have all the building blocks here, and the suppliers vetted, not just us but also our Tier 1s
SP's Aviation: While this is indeed a hypothetical question, your competition, Boeing has already tied up with the public sector HAL, which is the only one which has existing manufacturing facilities. Doesn't that put you at a disadvantage?
VL: No, I think we have the best Make in India offer on the table. We have the most robust package. Not only that, if you look at the sustainment market, we have the world's largest fighter eco system: 3000+ fighters flying. So, when you look at the after sales support and the MRO market, the scale that we have to offer India to plug into this eco system is completely unmatched by any competitor.
SP's Aviation: The IAF has a big commitment to the indigenous LCA Tejas fighter. Will this kill the market for foreign single engine aircraft in India?
VL: The LCA is an Air Defence asset. The F-21 is Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft. And so, the operational profiles are different. The F-21 flies farther. It stays on station longer, and it gets there faster. So, it has a very different operational profile. The F-21 is very complementary to the Tejas. We've also extended our support, in any way possible, to the Government of India on the LCA.
"We have the best Make in India offer on the table. We have the most robust package. Not only that, if you look at the sustainment market, we have the world's largest fighter eco system: 3000+ fighters flying. So, when you look at the after sales support and the MRO market, the scale that we have to offer India to plug into this eco system is completely unmatched by any competitor"
SP's Aviation: Does that mean there's potential for (international) cooperation on the LCA Mk-II?
VL: Absolutely. We're willing to work with the Government of India whether it's the LCA Mk2 or AMCA.
SP's Aviation: What's your offer?
VL: Depends upon their requirements. And we will work with the Government of India. Everything is caveated to US Government approval and what the Government of India desires a foreign OEM to assist with.
SP's Aviation: You are a seasoned observer of the Indian scene. What could be the possible areas of cooperation on the LCA or AMCA? What could be on offer?
VL: We have a system called the Auto GICAS, which is a collision avoidance system. It can be integrated on to the Indian platform. It's a unique system that saves lives. It's able to correct when the pilot is disoriented. The other technical expertise can be in terms of increasing production rates and capacities.
SP's Aviation: Lockheed Martin's earlier offer of the F-16 in the MMRCA programme was not found technically compliant. How is the F-21 offer different in capability terms?
VL: So, there are several unique aspects to the F-21. One is that it's the only aircraft in the world with dual re-fuelling - both the probe and drogue and the boom re-fueller. The second aspect is that it has an India unique EW suite. The third thing is that it has 40 per cent more weapon carrying capability through the triple rail launcher that we have on the F-21. Then, we've added an aft dorsal fin which gives increased growth capacity to it, and finally it's got a modern cockpit.
SP's Aviation: The capabilities of the competing fighters in the fray were extensively tested in the earlier MMRCA comptition. Will it be the Make in India industrial offer which will be the deal clincher in this competition?
VL: As I just mentioned, the capability is quite different in the F-21 than what used to be there in Block 70. But indeed, having a very robust Make in India programme and a robust supply chain is very much part of this process. So, Make in India, Startup India, Skill India - all Government initiatives - are priorities, and this programme addresses them.
SP's Aviation: Will the F-21 lead in to the F-35?
VL: To start with, the F-35 would be a government-to-government conversation. I can't really comment on that. But having said that, Lockheed Martin is the only company in the world which has two operational 5th Generation fighters. All these technologies are leveraged for the F-21 platforms.
Lockheed Martin willing to partner India on LCA Tejas Mk–II & AMCA - SP's Aviation
Dassault Aviation likely to start making Rafale parts in India this year for global clients
Dassault Aviation likely to start making Rafale parts in India this year for global clients
DASSAULT RELIANCE AEROSPACE LTD TO START FALCON-2000 FUSELAGE ASSEMBLY IN AUGUST
Dassault Reliance Aerospace Ltd To Start Falcon-2000 Fuselage Assembly In August | Indian Defence News
[...]
Dassault Aviation likely to start making Rafale parts in India this year for global clients
Dassault Reliance Aerospace Ltd To Start Falcon-2000 Fuselage Assembly In August | Indian Defence News
