MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[Abhay rajput]

W

I don't think choice of fighter aircraft would really decide elections, even with all the tension between India and Pakistan it's still quite technical and abstract for most people. This was the mistake Rahul made, he bet he could sway the elections by denouncing the Rafale deal constantly and it only caused his party to fall into irrelevance as that was not what most people cared about.

Still, there's absolutely no reason to choose the F-16. One could say there's a political reason so as to deepen the strategic partnership with the USA, but the USA are currently very busy demonstrating to the world that they are not reliable allies or partners. It's kind of like buying ten gallons of snake oil so that in exchange Dr. Quack McConartist will help you claim some real estate on the Sun. Anyone with a brain in working order will see through the scheme.

Well sir this Loksabha elections was fought on nationalism and surgical strikes , which boosted the BJP performance .. BJP would have still form the govt. Albeit with low majority... if opposition make much noise on f16 then the govt. Can easily came under pressure unlike Rafale, after all mig21 shoot down f16 in dogfight.. its a credible point unlike Rafale which BJP govt. Can't counter with anything..

 

[Sathya]

India will buy US weapons except for F16 /21.

India will place orders for Seahawks and P8I put together 5-6 billion $ in next few months

India need US support as much as French support wrt China.

India would also liked to have Russians as much as possible in the same way. .

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

An article in which we are incidentally informed of some delays for Brazil's Gripen programme.

Francia ofrece a Colombia el avión de combate Rafale - Noticias Infodefensa América

In relation to Saab Gripen NG, which is one of the favorite models in various sectors of the Colombian government due to offers of program funding and technology transfer, there are preventative measures generated by the latest announcements by the Brazilian government to cut funds for its main defense programs, among them the Aeronautics FX-2, which could affect the first deliveries of the new Gripen for the Brazilian Air Force, scheduled for 2021, as the number of units could be reduced from 11 to only four aircraft and the same program could suffer delays until 2026 or beyond.

 

[Aniruddha]

When is the MMRCA 2.0 deal going to be signed??

 

[randomradio]

An article in which we are incidentally informed of some delays for Brazil's Gripen programme.

Francia ofrece a Colombia el avión de combate Rafale - Noticias Infodefensa América

Had they signed up for Rafales back in 2015, they would have been waiting for the deliveries of the last 10 jets now. They missed the bus.

And it was likely that India would have to wait for production slots to empty before we took delivery of the first jet. Lucky that the bus was around then.

The lesson: Make hay while the sun shines.

 

[Bon Plan]

When is the MMRCA 2.0 deal going to be signed??

as nearly all the indian weapons deals : never

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

And it was likely that India would have to wait for production slots to empty before we took delivery of the first jet.

No, Dassault is abble to upgrade the production rate to 3/Month and is now at 2/Month only. In case the Brasil would have choose the Rafale Dassault would have increase the Rafale production rate to 3/Month and that's it.

 

[Bon Plan]

No, Dassault is abble to upgrade the production rate to 3/Month and is now at 2/Month only. In case the Brasil would have choose the Rafale Dassault would have increase the Rafale production rate to 3/Month and that's it.

AESA in a "early embodiment" stage for Spain and Germany in 2022... If the deal is inked before the end of this year ! and if all go perfectly. So nearly 10 years late than french air force.

No news about english EF2000.... Are they already trying to sell it ?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

When is the MMRCA 2.0 deal going to be signed??

Signing requires money, and until you see proper restructuring in our forces, removal of duplication and cutting non combat flab, we will never have enough money to sign for anything.

 

[Aniruddha]

Signing requires money, and until you see proper restructuring in our forces, removal of duplication and cutting non combat flab, we will never have enough money to sign for anything.

Yes, that is true, most of our defence budget goes into paying the soilder's pensions. We should reduce our 1.4 million strong force into a leaner but meaner 1.0 million strong force and spend 3.0% of our GDP on our defence needs.
Plus, whatever defence products that can be procured indigenously should be procured with haste.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Yes, that is true, most of our defence budget goes into paying the soilder's pensions. We should reduce our 1.4 million strong force into a leaner but meaner 1.0 million strong force and spend 3.0% of our GDP on our defence needs.
Plus, whatever defence products that can be procured indigenously should be procured with haste.

No need to increase the spending. In the same spending , the moment we cut down forces.

Reorganize and remove duplication , like Army and Airforce should have common unified commands. The troop transport and attack helicopter fleet should be solely handled by IA. Procuring common platforms for IA, IAF , IN and ICG.

Disinvestment in DPSUs and banning of any kind of labour unions in them, etc

 

[Bon Plan]

Meet the F-21: India's New Super Fighter (Or Just an Old F-16?)

Meet the F-21: India's New Super Fighter (Or Just an Old F-16?)

"Lockheed Martin is developing a new variant of its iconic F-16 single-engine fighter in order to compete in India’s 2019 tender for 110 new warplanes.

But don’t count on the American firm’s “F-21” to win the contract.

According to journalist Angad Singh, the likely winner is French company Dassault’s Rafale twin-engine fighter."

 

[A Person]

banning of any kind of labour unions in them

Not actually a good idea, as it's counterproductive in the end. Unions allow to channel worker discontent and to give a single side with which to negotiate. When you get rid of unions, you can get greater power over workers for a while, but when they do finally revolt it'll be unchanneled and more destructive. You also have to keep in mind that if workers' conditions suck, your important skilled workers will have a strong incentive to leave at the first opportunity, because they have the skills that can give them a better job elsewhere (including abroad if not in India), but they are the ones you want to retain. (Unskilled workers can be replaced by automation and/or subcontractors.)

 

[randomradio]

Not actually a good idea, as it's counterproductive in the end. Unions allow to channel worker discontent and to give a single side with which to negotiate. When you get rid of unions, you can get greater power over workers for a while, but when they do finally revolt it'll be unchanneled and more destructive. You also have to keep in mind that if workers' conditions suck, your important skilled workers will have a strong incentive to leave at the first opportunity, because they have the skills that can give them a better job elsewhere (including abroad if not in India), but they are the ones you want to retain. (Unskilled workers can be replaced by automation and/or subcontractors.)

Your unions work fine. Our unions are simply hotbeds of corruption. They do not exist for the benefit of the workers.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Not actually a good idea, as it's counterproductive in the end. Unions allow to channel worker discontent and to give a single side with which to negotiate. When you get rid of unions, you can get greater power over workers for a while, but when they do finally revolt it'll be unchanneled and more destructive. You also have to keep in mind that if workers' conditions suck, your important skilled workers will have a strong incentive to leave at the first opportunity, because they have the skills that can give them a better job elsewhere (including abroad if not in India), but they are the ones you want to retain. (Unskilled workers can be replaced by automation and/or subcontractors.)

Unions in DPSUs or any defence manufacturing unit should be banned. I stand by it.

Quality, Quantity and Timely delivery of arms is the only thing which matters.

 

[halloweene]

Won't happen at DRAL. Dassault has a strong culture of positive HR management. They hate to lose qualified workers as they consider that they're very expensive to train.

 

[Gautam]

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer.

Updated: Nov 28, 2019 19:30 IST
By Rezaul H Laskar

The Saab Gripen. (Photo @Saab)

Sweden’s Gripen fighter jet is an “extremely cost effective” option for India’s plan to acquire 114 multi-role combat planes and its manufacturer Saab International is fully prepared to develop and make the aircraft in India, Swedish ambassador Klas Molin has said.

Molin also said India and the European Union (EU) should push forward with talks on the proposed broad-based Bilateral Trade and Investment Agreement, adding Sweden was not discouraged by New Delhi’s recent decision to opt out of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). Negotiations alone can overcome “difficult” issues between the two sides, he said.

Trade and defence ties are expected to figure in the upcoming state visit to India during December 1-6 by Sweden’s King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, who will be accompanied by a delegation that includes foreign minister Ann Linde and business and innovation minister Ibrahim Baylan. Besides meeting President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Swedish head of state will travel to Mumbai and Uttarakhand.

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer. The other contenders are France’s Rafale, F/A-18 and F-21 of the US, MiG-35 and Sukhoi-35 of Russia, and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Molin said Saab International has had a presence in India for long and had partnered with Tech Mahindra. The firm is committed to “developing and manufacturing in India” and its bid is backed by the Swedish government, he said.

“Some of the key points regarding the Gripen system is that it’s extremely cost effective, it’s a single engine aircraft, it’s multi-role and the life cycle cost, because of the way it’s been designed, makes it much less expensive than many others while maintaining quality and operability,” he said.

“It’s not a new version of something that was originally developed a long time ago. It is the newest generation of aircraft, which I think is also relevant in this discussion.”

Noting that Sweden wasn’t discouraged by India’s opting out of the RCEP, Molin said the citizens and consumers of India and Europe “would be well served by a free trade agreement, including investment protection”.

He said, “It’s working very well as it is but I think there is a clear potential and scope for more. We’ve been encouraged by commerce minister Piyush Goyal’s early statements and those of the government...there is a new (European) commissioner for trade and it’s certainly our hope that we will get on with talks that will lead to negotiations on a FTA, including investment protection.”

India’s decision on RCEP “doesn’t change our ambition and our desire for an agreement”. Acknowledging sensitivities on both sides, he said, “I think the best way forward is to sit down and map those, talk them through and have a negotiation about it because clearly there are areas historically that have been difficult and perhaps will remain so.”

Molin said healthcare, innovation, climate change, sustainable transportation, waste management, India’s smart cities programme and cyber-security will also be on the agenda during the Swedish king’s visit. The two sides will also assess progress on the eight-point Joint Action Plan finalised during Modi’s visit to Sweden last year and some MoUs will be signed.

The king will also be accompanied by a business delegation more than 100 people representing some 60 manufacturing companies. Sweden’s investments in India during 2000-2019 were worth $1.79 billion and bilateral trade in goods is worth $1.8 billion while trade in services is worth $1.4 billion.

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

 

[Deathstar]

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer.

Updated: Nov 28, 2019 19:30 IST
By Rezaul H Laskar
View attachment 11662
The Saab Gripen. (Photo @Saab)

Sweden’s Gripen fighter jet is an “extremely cost effective” option for India’s plan to acquire 114 multi-role combat planes and its manufacturer Saab International is fully prepared to develop and make the aircraft in India, Swedish ambassador Klas Molin has said.

Molin also said India and the European Union (EU) should push forward with talks on the proposed broad-based Bilateral Trade and Investment Agreement, adding Sweden was not discouraged by New Delhi’s recent decision to opt out of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). Negotiations alone can overcome “difficult” issues between the two sides, he said.

Trade and defence ties are expected to figure in the upcoming state visit to India during December 1-6 by Sweden’s King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, who will be accompanied by a delegation that includes foreign minister Ann Linde and business and innovation minister Ibrahim Baylan. Besides meeting President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Swedish head of state will travel to Mumbai and Uttarakhand.

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer. The other contenders are France’s Rafale, F/A-18 and F-21 of the US, MiG-35 and Sukhoi-35 of Russia, and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Molin said Saab International has had a presence in India for long and had partnered with Tech Mahindra. The firm is committed to “developing and manufacturing in India” and its bid is backed by the Swedish government, he said.

“Some of the key points regarding the Gripen system is that it’s extremely cost effective, it’s a single engine aircraft, it’s multi-role and the life cycle cost, because of the way it’s been designed, makes it much less expensive than many others while maintaining quality and operability,” he said.

“It’s not a new version of something that was originally developed a long time ago. It is the newest generation of aircraft, which I think is also relevant in this discussion.”

Noting that Sweden wasn’t discouraged by India’s opting out of the RCEP, Molin said the citizens and consumers of India and Europe “would be well served by a free trade agreement, including investment protection”.

He said, “It’s working very well as it is but I think there is a clear potential and scope for more. We’ve been encouraged by commerce minister Piyush Goyal’s early statements and those of the government...there is a new (European) commissioner for trade and it’s certainly our hope that we will get on with talks that will lead to negotiations on a FTA, including investment protection.”

India’s decision on RCEP “doesn’t change our ambition and our desire for an agreement”. Acknowledging sensitivities on both sides, he said, “I think the best way forward is to sit down and map those, talk them through and have a negotiation about it because clearly there are areas historically that have been difficult and perhaps will remain so.”

Molin said healthcare, innovation, climate change, sustainable transportation, waste management, India’s smart cities programme and cyber-security will also be on the agenda during the Swedish king’s visit. The two sides will also assess progress on the eight-point Joint Action Plan finalised during Modi’s visit to Sweden last year and some MoUs will be signed.

The king will also be accompanied by a business delegation more than 100 people representing some 60 manufacturing companies. Sweden’s investments in India during 2000-2019 were worth $1.79 billion and bilateral trade in goods is worth $1.8 billion while trade in services is worth $1.4 billion.

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

So Sweden will lecture us on yooman rights and also sell us weapons.
Anyways what if Saab Gripen costs less than Tejas M1A/MK2???
Any comparison available? And which version are they offering ?? Gripen NG or E?
Big If here : any chance of TOT from Volvo in jet engine tech

 

[Gautam]

So Sweden will lecture us on yooman rights and also sell us weapons.

Anyways what if Saab Gripen costs less than Tejas M1A/MK2???

We will still go with LCA.

Any comparison available? And which version are they offering ?? Gripen NG or E?

I don't think it has been mentioned yet.

Big If here : any chance of TOT from Volvo in jet engine tech

Don't have much to offer. Their RM12 is almost the same as our Kaveri.

 

[Bon Plan]

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer.

Updated: Nov 28, 2019 19:30 IST
By Rezaul H Laskar
View attachment 11662
The Saab Gripen. (Photo @Saab)

Sweden’s Gripen fighter jet is an “extremely cost effective” option for India’s plan to acquire 114 multi-role combat planes and its manufacturer Saab International is fully prepared to develop and make the aircraft in India, Swedish ambassador Klas Molin has said.

Molin also said India and the European Union (EU) should push forward with talks on the proposed broad-based Bilateral Trade and Investment Agreement, adding Sweden was not discouraged by New Delhi’s recent decision to opt out of the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP). Negotiations alone can overcome “difficult” issues between the two sides, he said.

Trade and defence ties are expected to figure in the upcoming state visit to India during December 1-6 by Sweden’s King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, who will be accompanied by a delegation that includes foreign minister Ann Linde and business and innovation minister Ibrahim Baylan. Besides meeting President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Swedish head of state will travel to Mumbai and Uttarakhand.

Saab is among defence firms that responded to the Indian Air Force’s 2018 initial tender for 114 multi-role combat jets to be made in India through a partnership between a domestic company and a foreign manufacturer. The other contenders are France’s Rafale, F/A-18 and F-21 of the US, MiG-35 and Sukhoi-35 of Russia, and Eurofighter Typhoon.

Molin said Saab International has had a presence in India for long and had partnered with Tech Mahindra. The firm is committed to “developing and manufacturing in India” and its bid is backed by the Swedish government, he said.

“Some of the key points regarding the Gripen system is that it’s extremely cost effective, it’s a single engine aircraft, it’s multi-role and the life cycle cost, because of the way it’s been designed, makes it much less expensive than many others while maintaining quality and operability,” he said.

“It’s not a new version of something that was originally developed a long time ago. It is the newest generation of aircraft, which I think is also relevant in this discussion.”

Noting that Sweden wasn’t discouraged by India’s opting out of the RCEP, Molin said the citizens and consumers of India and Europe “would be well served by a free trade agreement, including investment protection”.

He said, “It’s working very well as it is but I think there is a clear potential and scope for more. We’ve been encouraged by commerce minister Piyush Goyal’s early statements and those of the government...there is a new (European) commissioner for trade and it’s certainly our hope that we will get on with talks that will lead to negotiations on a FTA, including investment protection.”

India’s decision on RCEP “doesn’t change our ambition and our desire for an agreement”. Acknowledging sensitivities on both sides, he said, “I think the best way forward is to sit down and map those, talk them through and have a negotiation about it because clearly there are areas historically that have been difficult and perhaps will remain so.”

Molin said healthcare, innovation, climate change, sustainable transportation, waste management, India’s smart cities programme and cyber-security will also be on the agenda during the Swedish king’s visit. The two sides will also assess progress on the eight-point Joint Action Plan finalised during Modi’s visit to Sweden last year and some MoUs will be signed.

The king will also be accompanied by a business delegation more than 100 people representing some 60 manufacturing companies. Sweden’s investments in India during 2000-2019 were worth $1.79 billion and bilateral trade in goods is worth $1.8 billion while trade in services is worth $1.4 billion.

Sweden pitches Gripen as ‘extremely cost effective’ option for India’s fighter jet programme

No way.
Legacy Gripen is a threat to Tejas Mk1, and Gripen E is a threat to Tejas Mk2. The indian top brass will never accept to suicide themselves their multi years efforts.