Lol, its cute how you believe anything a capitalist says but hates them so much at the same.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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Asper HVT any thing above rcs 2 is meaningless, a decent fighter radar will pick 2+rcs object at 150+km range. I dont think rejas rcs won't play much role in aerial engagement. Logically a tejas with standard a2a or a2g will have around 2 rcs.The US won't do that either. Rather they will talk about interfering in the war themselves.
The issues with the F-35 are quite a lot. It's not suitable for use over the Himalayas due to its low TWR. Any aircraft loses a huge chunk of its thrust over mountains. And the F-35 is barely good enough for use over our plains, let alone the mountains. Then there's an issue with weapons integration. We can only import the F-35's weapons from the US, they won't allow the integration of our weapons on it. At best, they will allow the integration of European weapons. At worst, not even that. And this is not even considering all the logistics and maintenance strings attached. They definitely won't allow the production of the jet in India anyway. So at best, even if we go for it, it will be a silver bullet force.
The Israeli model would work best for us, but even that's with a lot of unnecessary strings attached, including adding another country to work with alongside the original F-35 partners.
When it comes to imports, our only realistic option for a next gen jet in the next 5 years is Russia. But even with the Russians, we are facing diplomatic and political issues to the point where buying an entirely new jet from them is slowly becoming less and less of an option. And the Su-57 is most definitely a superior option to the F-35 once the latest version with the new engine becomes available.
In the long run, imports will no longer be an option. After MMRCA, we may see nothing more than silver bullet additions to the force, maybe not even that.
Maybe after 50 years or so.
Or you could join the IAF as a fighter pilot.
I personally think the best US fighter for IAF is a heavily modified /modernized version of F15 ex built in India with complete tot, minus the engines. Its a proven fighter with an excellent combat record. It can be our high end air dominance tactical fighter supplementing MKI and acting as a missile or bomb truck with the AMCA given its some what limited internal load capacity. IAF pilots anyhow acknowledge F15 SE has a better combat platform than the MKI when it comes to all the goodies it offers.
Exactly, in order to counter chinese su35 & j20 the F15EX is the best solution. Monstrously powerful & can climb altitude quickly, proven AESA radar, range wide variety of US weapons, better than rafale if you ignore flying cost.
We can order extra 36 rafale and end that french connection and should go for F15 EX in mmrca.
But chances are nill due to (1) our baboos & military still are living in cold war era suspicion on US gears and living in a fool's paradise of cheep weapons in large numbers theory (2) Existence of mki with IAF, another heavy fighter.
Russian BS is generally of the chart. There words should not be taken seriously.
First you need to read what you post yourself. General admit that F 35 is more stealthy than F 22 & yes it's not as Maneuvering as F 22 so? F 16 is not as Maneuvering as F 22 also what's the point. F 35 less Maneuveribility is a myth by the way.Lol. Okay.
You can't discuss this subject without understanding the core concept of how aircraft are used.
Gen. Hostage, head of the US Air Force’s Air Combat Command, gained some fame earlier this year when he said that “If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant [as] the F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22.”
The F-35′s cross section is much smaller than the F-22′s, but that does not mean, Hostage concedes, that the F-35 is necessarily superior to the F-22 when we go to war. In fact, Hostage says that it takes eight F-35s to do what two F-22s can handle.
“The F-35 is geared to go out and take down the surface targets,” says Hostage, leaning forward. “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed< [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.” But stealth — the ability to elude or greatly complicate an enemy’s ability to find and destroy an aircraft using a combination of design, tactics and technology — is not a magic pill, Hostage reminds us.
the F-35 is not compelling unless it’s there in numbers,” the general says.
“Because it can’t turn and run away, it’s got to have support from other F-35s. So I’m going to need eight F-35s to go after a target that I might only need two Raptors to go after.
All reasons as to why the F-35 is practically useless to India. We don't need only stealth, we can't afford the F-35 in numbers, and we do not have all the other assets necessary to protect the F-35, example the F-22.
Even though the F-35 is more stealthy than the F-22, kinematics still plays a significantly important part.
As for the Su-57/PAK FA, it has some features that makes is less stealthy than it should be, but that doesn't mean that statement should be used for comparison with other aircraft. It only means the Su-57 can be even better if there is greater emphasis on stealth. However, as the good general above pointed out, stealth isn't as important as all other features combined.
Something that an American admiral pointed out as well:
“You know that stealth maybe overrated,” Greenert said during a keynote at the Office of Naval Research Naval Future Force Science and Technology Expo.
CNO Greenert: Navy’s Next Fighter Might Not Need Stealth, High Speed - USNI News
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Navy’s planned next generation fighter will likely rely less on the speed and stealth that has defined the current generation of U.S. tactical aircraft and could feature an unmanned option, the Chief of Naval Operations said on Wednesday. CNO Adm. Jonathan Greenert...news.usni.org
“so, as Dhanoa pointed out during Gaganshakti, all these jets are not stealth jets. The only real stealth jets are the B-2 and Dassault Neuron, and other similar jets.
If we use the F-35 against China, it will die. That's also why the Americans are actually working on a new fighter jet under PCA to specifically deal with China. They will use the PCA alongside the LRS-B and want to make it operational in 2030. The F-35 became an outdated design even before it became operational.
More Western propaganda.
This is a problem with anything which move fast in atmosphere but detection will be to late period.
SU -57 RCS is between 0.5 and 1mt2 according to Sukhoi own patent while F 35 RCS is lower than F 22 (-40dB) that means f-35 RCS is 1000 time smaller than SU 57.
f 35 is more stealthy than B -2 and Dhanoa also said this.
there is no plane matching F 35 VLO characteristics anywhere in the world for foreseeable future. It will be our best bet. To counter Chinese FC 31(project AzM) j- 20 until AMCA come along. There is a reason why India withdrew from SU 57 program. even russian Don't want to induct it in large numbers cause deep down they know how pathetic it is compared to F 35.
SU 35 is an inferior jet, Chinese J 16 WITH AESA are destroying it in air combat. Rafale will eat it alive.
F-15EX being a superior platform compare to anything in India arsenal except rafale diminish role of MKI in IAF. better option would be more rafale or f 18 and if F 35 is offered buy it.
B2 is having higher RCS than f35 in xband spectrum only because its large platform, infact a huge platform. I saw an interview with an IAF personal, according to him B2 is the only truestealth platform existing today and neither f22 or f35 is a true stealth platform. Asper him b2 stealth optimised against fighter radar, ground based radars & even awacs also have low thermal signature too.
Do rafale can strike deep inside tibet? I fear its incapable to do. The best way to win war is destroy the supply chain of fighting front of army, i think f15 is the best option to do that. MKI have that deep penetrating capability even better than f15 but definitely lacks F15's superiority. Anyway you are spending money on a new platform, why not invest it wisely on a platform which is capable to destroy PAF & PLAAF, capable to go deep inside tibet.
Of course nothing is truly stealthy. a tail less plane will show greater stealth characteristics in lower bands.... Better word would be stealth optimization against different bands not just in typical X band.... giving an aircraft true VLO characteristics . Here the RCS value for prototype F 117 under different frequencies.
and this was more than 40 years ago.
F 35 by the way is also heavily optimized to be stealthy specially from L up to K band. Most airborne and ground base radar operate between those bands.
F 35 use a Lockheed CNT base RAM patented back in 2010 which is capable of absorbing EM radiation from 0.1 MHz to 60GHz.
F 35 is the only true VLO fighter jet out there....not even F 22 come close. Probably after MLU it may surpass it but for time being F -35 is king.
F22 will be the best. Or maybe we should wait for FCAS.
we only need a pair of superior F22 or FCAS and it can take of Pak+China combined.
. Moral of the story is you can’t reason with a man who “knows it all”.
You are just going by the assumption that the US will be sincere. They will not.
There is no such thing as a "junior partner" in their dictionary. It's the "my way or the highway" game with them. You are either a US lapdog, or a near-peer/peer adversary. Note the word used: "adversary". They do not want partners or equals. Once their work is done, they will do their best to repress you next.
Which is why we should cooperate with them on China, and only on China, but at the same time make our own plans to deal with the US as well.
You don't need to take anyting seriously. I've seen how Western propaganda works against Russian systems, most of what they write about Russian systems are generally lies. Instead all you have to do is look at the airframe design itself. It is most definitely designed as a stealth aircraft.
You don't know anything about the subject. So I'm done with this.
Lol. Nope.
It doesn't matter how "stealthy" the F-35 is, the Chinese are capable of killing it.
And no, the Russians plan on inducting the Su-57 in significantly large numbers. Again, you do not understand how the Russians handle their procurements, so you wouldn't know what they are actually planning in order for you to comment on it.
with all the talk of "multi polar" world by our current EAM S.Jaishankar, needing US to contain China is the last thing we want.
Btw, I see two pictures here of the extreme:
1) some posters paint China as a demi god, with tons of manufacturing of defense supplies, extreme tech in the making and semi conductor super pwoer. something India can never match. and hence, they proclaim the only way to defend is to do it in alliance with USA
2) Some posters claim we have extreme advantage on the ground and CHina cannot match us because their supply chains are going to be weak compared to us (This is the same china which built a HSR network in record time and also a direct link to Europe with trains).
One thing we are disregarding - is the chinese population. its not all homogenic and not all are CCCP supporters. there is a sizeable number of people who are crushed within china for dissent.
you only need to ask them hard question on that.
bring up Uighur issues in front of Pak every time and OIC (Even if you are not a member)
bring up Taiwan
whenever someone brings up Rohingya, bring up Tibetan refugee issue.
harp the mistreatment of african origin people in China
keep trumpeting the IPR theft from around the world
what is Indias strength and China's weakness? democracy, ability to voice dissent, multi ethnicity - use it fully.
undermine their whole charade of being "world leaders". for anyone without inclusion cannot be a world leader
I think we need a new thread for a detailed discussion
It can be titled
"Two Front Threat -- Should India enter into a formal alliance with US "
I will try to make it tomorrow
I feel there will be a renewed interest in purchasing off the shelf stuff that has been delayed for too long to face the two front threat that was so far thought to be too far fetched all this while. Another 36 Rafales will come sooner than later plus renewed push for ultra light artillery.
Tejas having "very low" RCS figure is pure fantasy, Harsh vardhan thakur has himself said on Twitter that Tejas has as much RCS as in the league of other 4th generation fighters.
Yeah as a stopgap we should go 54 readymade Rafale with a provision of f4 upgrade.
In mmrca we should go with F15EX along with AIM260. We need USA & NATO support to fight China,the best choice is f15