Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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Rafale M will be down the line of orders right?

When and what version are going to get?

The next gen F5 with a new radar architecture will only be ready after 2030, whereas we may very well sign this deal next year, for a 2027 entry, so that's only possible for F4.2 or F4.3. So GaAs radar and EW suite, whereas both LCA and MKI will get GaN during the same time.
 
Missile that ‘punched’ Russian sub will arm India’s Rafale M
By Boyko Nikolov On Nov 27, 2023

India is inching towards the final steps of procuring a formidable armament, showcased compellingly in the Ukraine conflict. The French SCALP cruise missile – known as the Storm Shadow in England – that succeeded in annihilating a Russian submarine and made a significant impact on the Black Sea Fleet’s headquarters, is anticipated to equip the 26 Dassault Rafale Marine [Rafale M] fighter jets.

As reported by ET, insider sources in India reveal ongoing discussions between New Delhi and Paris over the armament of the Rafale M. Evidently, the French contingent appears to be unopposed to equipping Indian combat aircraft to become a formidable force in Asia.

Ludovic Dumont, the esteemed General Delegate of MBDA India, has announced with assurance that his company is prepared to supply India with its advanced missile system. Set to supersede some of the older MiG-29Ms still in operation, the Rafale M stands as a fresh addition to their naval arsenal. Moreover, India’s recently commissioned aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant, is ready to accommodate 26 of these state-of-the-art French fighter jets.

What will SCALP guarantee?

It’s no coincidence that the Indian Ministry of Defense is showing interest in equipping their Rafale fighter jets with SCALPs, especially given the platform they will be launched from.

The French Rafales boast the ability to carry two SCALP missiles. In contrast, the Rafale M has a payload restriction, limiting it to a solitary SCALP unit. Despite this limitation, the use of an aircraft carrier as the launch pad for a Rafale M extends its range, surpassing that of a Rafale on land. This terrestrial Rafale is further limited in range by the necessity of avoiding proximity to the ‘presumed front line’.

Despite its limitations, the Rafale M combined with the aircraft carrier’s range becomes capable of striking any adversarial target. When considering potential targets, it’s particularly pertinent to refer to nations like Pakistan or China.

The Indian Rafale M is special

You have India, anxiously seeking ways to hold its own against China. Why? China is swiftly amassing an impressive arsenal, complete with aircraft carriers and fighter jets. All the while, New Delhi is left scrambling for options.

Interestingly, a majority of China’s fighter jets, J-20 being the exceptional case, are modeled after the Soviet Su-30. These aircraft are not just heavy but also incredibly versatile and well-equipped. The balance of power is certainly tipping towards Beijing, and India is acutely aware of it.

This is the reason why New Delhi favored the Rafale over the American F/A-18 Super Hornet. The US did not grant the permissions that France did. Specifically, the Indian Rafales have the capacity for “nuclear delivery”. In other words, these aircraft are designed to carry nuclear weapons.

The French authorities gave all required permissions and adjustments for incorporating nuclear weapons. This provides a substantial upgrade to the fleet: the capacity to launch long-range nuclear warhead cruise missiles. When combined with the might of an aircraft carrier, which essentially acts as a movable airfield, this allows us to project power straight into the Pacific.

According to resources from India, two key operational features significantly enhance the Indian Rafale’s functionality: a potent optical system capable of detecting stealth aircraft and a nuclear delivery capability. These components are particularly vital in the event of a confrontation with the Chinese Navy.

The SCALP / Storm Shadow

The SCALP cruise missile, also known as Storm Shadow in the United Kingdom, is a long-range, air-launched cruise missile developed by France and the United Kingdom. It is designed to strike high-value targets with pinpoint accuracy.

The SCALP cruise missile has impressive technical characteristics. It has a length of approximately 5.1 meters and a wingspan of around 3 meters. The missile weighs about 1,300 kilograms and is powered by a turbojet engine, which allows it to reach speeds of up to Mach 0.8. It has a range of over 250 kilometers, enabling it to engage targets at a significant distance from the launch aircraft.

One of the key features of the SCALP cruise missile is its warhead. The missile is equipped with a 450-kilogram blast-fragmentation warhead, which is designed to inflict significant damage on its intended target. The warhead is capable of penetrating hardened structures, making it highly effective against fortified targets.
 
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Missile that ‘punched’ Russian sub will arm India’s Rafale M
By Boyko Nikolov On Nov 27, 2023

India is inching towards the final steps of procuring a formidable armament, showcased compellingly in the Ukraine conflict. The French SCALP cruise missile – known as the Storm Shadow in England – that succeeded in annihilating a Russian submarine and made a significant impact on the Black Sea Fleet’s headquarters, is anticipated to equip the 26 Dassault Rafale Marine [Rafale M] fighter jets.

As reported by ET, insider sources in India reveal ongoing discussions between New Delhi and Paris over the armament of the Rafale M. Evidently, the French contingent appears to be unopposed to equipping Indian combat aircraft to become a formidable force in Asia.

Ludovic Dumont, the esteemed General Delegate of MBDA India, has announced with assurance that his company is prepared to supply India with its advanced missile system. Set to supersede some of the older MiG-29Ms still in operation, the Rafale M stands as a fresh addition to their naval arsenal. Moreover, India’s recently commissioned aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant, is ready to accommodate 26 of these state-of-the-art French fighter jets.

What will SCALP guarantee?

It’s no coincidence that the Indian Ministry of Defense is showing interest in equipping their Rafale fighter jets with SCALPs, especially given the platform they will be launched from.

The French Rafales boast the ability to carry two SCALP missiles. In contrast, the Rafale M has a payload restriction, limiting it to a solitary SCALP unit. Despite this limitation, the use of an aircraft carrier as the launch pad for a Rafale M extends its range, surpassing that of a Rafale on land. This terrestrial Rafale is further limited in range by the necessity of avoiding proximity to the ‘presumed front line’.

Despite its limitations, the Rafale M combined with the aircraft carrier’s range becomes capable of striking any adversarial target. When considering potential targets, it’s particularly pertinent to refer to nations like Pakistan or China.

The Indian Rafale M is special

You have India, anxiously seeking ways to hold its own against China. Why? China is swiftly amassing an impressive arsenal, complete with aircraft carriers and fighter jets. All the while, New Delhi is left scrambling for options.

Interestingly, a majority of China’s fighter jets, J-20 being the exceptional case, are modeled after the Soviet Su-30. These aircraft are not just heavy but also incredibly versatile and well-equipped. The balance of power is certainly tipping towards Beijing, and India is acutely aware of it.

This is the reason why New Delhi favored the Rafale over the American F/A-18 Super Hornet. The US did not grant the permissions that France did. Specifically, the Indian Rafales have the capacity for “nuclear delivery”. In other words, these aircraft are designed to carry nuclear weapons.

The French authorities gave all required permissions and adjustments for incorporating nuclear weapons. This provides a substantial upgrade to the fleet: the capacity to launch long-range nuclear warhead cruise missiles. When combined with the might of an aircraft carrier, which essentially acts as a movable airfield, this allows us to project power straight into the Pacific.

According to resources from India, two key operational features significantly enhance the Indian Rafale’s functionality: a potent optical system capable of detecting stealth aircraft and a nuclear delivery capability. These components are particularly vital in the event of a confrontation with the Chinese Navy.

The SCALP / Storm Shadow

The SCALP cruise missile, also known as Storm Shadow in the United Kingdom, is a long-range, air-launched cruise missile developed by France and the United Kingdom. It is designed to strike high-value targets with pinpoint accuracy.

The SCALP cruise missile has impressive technical characteristics. It has a length of approximately 5.1 meters and a wingspan of around 3 meters. The missile weighs about 1,300 kilograms and is powered by a turbojet engine, which allows it to reach speeds of up to Mach 0.8. It has a range of over 250 kilometers, enabling it to engage targets at a significant distance from the launch aircraft.

One of the key features of the SCALP cruise missile is its warhead. The missile is equipped with a 450-kilogram blast-fragmentation warhead, which is designed to inflict significant damage on its intended target. The warhead is capable of penetrating hardened structures, making it highly effective against fortified targets.

I doubt nuclear capable was the reason for the IN's choice, it's not in their mandate.
 
I have no idea why inter-governmental arms trade would even consider nuke capability when there are self serving control regimes are present. Just like such reports consider every Rus stuff to be nuke capable due to the 80s.
 
I have no idea why inter-governmental arms trade would even consider nuke capability when there are self serving control regimes are present. Just like such reports consider every Rus stuff to be nuke capable due to the 80s.

They always make that mistake. Similarly, although the IAF Rafales will eventually get the nuke treatment, the IAF has absolutely zero interest in giving up any jets for the nuke mission. A much larger fleet, yes, but not the current lot. But the PMO decides such things.
 
I doubt nuclear capable was the reason for the IN's choice, it's not in their mandate.
It was not. But I do think the Americans might not have shown an interest in selling the jassm lr/xr to us. That mjght have tipped it for the rafale and also the size.
 
It was not. But I do think the Americans might not have shown an interest in selling the jassm lr/xr to us. That mjght have tipped it for the rafale and also the size.

Delivering the LRASM wouldn't have been a problem.

The SH may have had carrier compatibility issues. Rafale doesn't fit on Vikram whereas there were some claims that the SH's nose needs to be detached for use on Vikrant. The arrestor cables have a weight limit too. It's something @vstol Jockey had brought up a few years ago.
 
It was not. But I do think the Americans might not have shown an interest in selling the jassm lr/xr to us. That mjght have tipped it for the rafale and also the size.
US made jets are never the choice for our forces. Only mule gears ie transport, ISR etc will be bought. Actual warfighting stuff we buy a lot less from theirs.
 
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US made jets are never the choice for our forces. Only mule gears ie transport, ISR etc will be bought. Actual warfighting stuff we buy a lot less from theirs.
We bought apaches and p-8I's. Could end up buying strykers too. Too be fair we should expand our arsenal like Egypt or Poland while simultaneously pulling off a China/Iran. Buy western and Russian equipment license producing them in bulk. While reverse engineering older designs by the ofb's and exporting them to friendly countries.
 
We bought apaches and p-8I's. Could end up buying strykers too. Too be fair we should expand our arsenal like Egypt or Poland while simultaneously pulling off a China/Iran. Buy western and Russian equipment license producing them in bulk. While reverse engineering older designs by the ofb's and exporting them to friendly countries.
Why would someone buy older reverse engineered product when chinese advertise more modern products at lesser cost?

Watch how IAF sidelines usa made fighter jets again in next tender. They will only touch the bases but will never trade tactical operating freedom for high cost show pieces. The few deals here & there that would happen will be due to largely geo-politics related than purely out of necessity.
 
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Why would someone buy older reverse engineered product when chinese advertise more modern products at lesser cost?

Watch how IAF sidelines usa made fighter jets again in next tender. They will only touch the bases but will never trade tactical operating freedom for high cost show pieces. The few deals here & there that would happen will be due to largely geo-politics related than purely out of necessity.
There's a huge market for 122mm,130 guns in Africa. A lot of t-55's and t-72's whose modernisation packages we could sell. A lot of countries are open to buying fagot,Kornet, konkurs,milan,malayukt rip-offs. Also scud, tochka and Kornet rip off's. We could even sell fab-500,fab-1500's and fab250 ripoffs.Majority of exports to Armenia has been soviet ammunition. If we really wanted we could buy the designs for the p500,p700,p-1200,kh-35,kh-58,kh101 and could do a jv with these designs. Akash is just an extremely upgraded sa-6 gainful. We could do same with tor,buk and s-350's. Then we have bmd's,bmpt's,bmp3 and Kazan production which could be taken up by ofb's. Heck we should produce modernised 130mm, 180mm and 203mm too considering how heavy artillery has been so effective for the Russians too. A major force of 155mm with specialised 180mm and 203mm guns will make it pretty comfortable for us. A lot of soviet designs which we could modernise with our and Israeli tech and could sell to partner countries as well as our own armed forces.
Add the Americans and we could even start producing strykers,stingers,javelins, ar-15's, hellfires, himars, bradleys, tows. That can be exported to third countries. We have a huge base of equipment that can be inducted because fact is the indian army is underequipped, underarmed and we are severely undermechanized.
Similarly license producing American small arms. 5.56 mm ammo has been the biggest export for the ofb's. So let's just start producing all varieties of nato based ammunition. There's a huge demand of jdam's, 25mm,30mm,35mm,m134,gau-19's ammunition we aren't producing. That have huge potential within our forces. Same for Russian atgm's,armour and munitions that we could produce and sell to ctso,gulf and African countries. We could compete with both eastern European and Chinese arms. Chinese equipment has shoddy quality at the end of the day. There only proven tech has been their tanks. Their drones have had questionable performance. Chinese tanks are superior to their Russian counterparts but that's it really. Nobody buys their small arms. The 5.8mm is a dead calibre beyond China. Most chinese exports are either ak ripoff's, atgm's, ashms and nato or soviet ripoff's. That's a market that we can easily enter and mass produce. The newer insas modernisations have also been a success. So we have a decent indian portfolio but we could also license produce Russian and American/European hardware that could be easily exported to second and third world partner countries with limited budgets. The entire Chinese export market is dependent on soviet ripoff's. Their own designs have had limited success. The vt-4 is just a super modernised type90IIm which was based on the t-55 not even the t-72. They literally exported crotale ripoff's to Bangladesh while we sat doing nothing.
We can easily.compete.with the Chinese
Just need their scale which we can actually match with 4-5 years atleast in the export market. The Koreans and Turks literally license produced nato hardware to the point they could produce it on their own.
If we want to go even more big. We could produce il-76's, c-130's, f-15's f-16's and Russian aerial equipment. But it will be just too much expenditure. There's a lot of gaps in our forces that could be plugged with modernised cold war hardware.
And we have huge base of soviet stockpile which we could use to produce more modern ammunition.
 
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Same rule can be applied. Press is making up stuff.

It’s definitely one squadron. Unlikely to be split for both carriers. Two squadrons of Mig is there for Vikky anyway.
Yes, but when an aircraft carrier is shut down for major maintenance, the squadron can board the other carrier.
 
It's a master point for Iaf to buy more rafales.

SFC wanted 40 jets before they toned it down to 20 and then finally decided the IAF will control all the jets and hand them over for nuclear missions when necessary. MRFA will give us numbers.