Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?


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For the payload thing, that remains to be seen. It has a heavier empty weight (by nearly four tons), and it is designed to operate from aircraft carriers with a longer catapult.

On empty weight, the TWR of the SH B3 is 1.6 and Rafale M's is 1.45, B2's at 1.37. The TWR is a far more important factor and it should easily compensate for Rafale's additional lift.
 
The networking with the Americans is a false problem because in reality we always replace the communications of an aircraft sold for export with those requested by the customer, and the connection to the American systems is more of an authorisation problem than a technical problem.

Americans systems can speak to each other far more seamlessly than American systems can with French systems, even if they share datalinks. In case we end up fighting together, this integration will become even more useful. This is especially the case with new and exotic American tech that we haven't even heard of.

There's also a problem with bad faith. If the Americans give us access to their vast ISR network and we reciprocate by choosing Rafale over SH even if the SH meets our requirements, it will only result in a diplomatic push back that will take a long time to fix. That authorisation will never come. And we will have to spend more money elsewhere to make up for it.
 
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Nah in pure a2a the Rafale will win. But in a2g/s the superhornet has far more choices.

In a2a the Rafale and F-18E will be superior to anything Pakistan flies and more capable than any 4th gen fighter China throws at India. What is more important is the a2g/antiship role. I believe the F-18E combat load and type of weapons it would carry from India's carrier has the advantaged.
 
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The Rafale has much more lift than the F-18 SH and will be able to carry a ton more from a sky jump.

The networking with the Americans is a false problem because in reality we always replace the communications of an aircraft sold for export with those requested by the customer, and the connection to the American systems is more of an authorisation problem than a technical problem.
The main disadvantages Rafale is lack of folded wing mechanism & lack of AGM 158 family type missiles. FA18 is having a clear advantages over Rafale because of it.

The wing tip removal, Radom removal before lifting & refitting the same is not a practical solution for any armed forces on a regular basis and definitely not adviced during emergency /during war.
 
The main disadvantages Rafale is lack of folded wing mechanism & lack of AGM 158 family type missiles. FA18 is having a clear advantages over Rafale because of it.

The wing tip removal, Radom removal before lifting & refitting the same is not a practical solution for any armed forces on a regular basis and definitely not adviced during emergency /during war.
Compare with AGM 158 family, FMAN/FMC will not be so bad. AGM-158C LRASM cost $ 3millions by unit...better to integrate BrahMos.

From the point of view of wingspan, 30 cm of difference is absolutely negligible as long as the aircraft can fit into the lift.
There was never any question of removing the Radom, but it opens like a door and I had suggested using this feature if it was necessary to have margins on the edges of the lift, but it is not necessary: the Rafale can be tilted more than the F-18 SH because it is 3 m shorter and this compensates for the 30 cm difference in wingspan.

Finally, Dassault has planned a modification of the end fittings and interfaces so that they are as easy and quick to assemble and disassemble as the pylons under the wings. This is likely to be quicker than folding or unfolding the F-18 wings, because it can be done simultaneously with the rest of the aircraft preparation, while the F-18 wing deployment prevents weapons from being loaded onto the wings during movement.
 
Compare with AGM 158 family, FMAN/FMC will not be so bad. AGM-158C LRASM cost $ 3millions by unit...better to integrate BrahMos.

From the point of view of wingspan, 30 cm of difference is absolutely negligible as long as the aircraft can fit into the lift.
There was never any question of removing the Radom, but it opens like a door and I had suggested using this feature if it was necessary to have margins on the edges of the lift, but it is not necessary: the Rafale can be tilted more than the F-18 SH because it is 3 m shorter and this compensates for the 30 cm difference in wingspan.

Finally, Dassault has planned a modification of the end fittings and interfaces so that they are as easy and quick to assemble and disassemble as the pylons under the wings. This is likely to be quicker than folding or unfolding the F-18 wings, because it can be done simultaneously with the rest of the aircraft preparation, while the F-18 wing deployment prevents weapons from being loaded onto the wings during movement.
Brahmos is too jeavy for both SH & Rafale, and LRSAM is most probably superior to Brahmos in all aspects, except in speed. Its smart , long ranged, with credible sea skimming capabilities & light weight. If ER version is offered then, we canntarget things up to 900-1000 km away.

Rest of the thing, i beleive you are giving a biased opinion.
 
Brahmos is too jeavy for both SH & Rafale, and LRSAM is most probably superior to Brahmos in all aspects, except in speed. Its smart , long ranged, with credible sea skimming capabilities & light weight. If ER version is offered then, we canntarget things up to 900-1000 km away.

Rest of the thing, i beleive you are giving a biased opinion.

It ll be not wise to not integrate our own missile wherever possible.
From the plethora of missile s we are developing, we should not buy any missile.
We can buy things where we are lacking.
 
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I believe the F-18E combat load and type of weapons it would carry from India's carrier has the advantaged.
That's the entire reasoning. The Rafale only has the storm shadow/scalp EG and exocet. While the superhornet can't use harpoon, JASSM/JASSM-ER, JSM, LRASM, SLAM-ER. So superhornet has far more options. But the entire reason superhornet will win is because of it fitting the lift and hangar and also the commonality of the ge-414 with the tedbf.
 
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National pride comes into this. The Rafale is your baby now. I still think the Rafale makes more sense. The super hornet also has better radar and missiles available, Though the Meteor is good
Nah the meteor mica combo is superior to aim 120d and aim-9x. There's no national pride in this. Although the aim 120d is cheaper than meteor. Meteor is just a superior deal
 
It ll be not wise to not integrate our own missile wherever possible.
From the plethora of missile s we are developing, we should not buy any missile.
We can buy things where we are lacking.
It's good to integrate,but what is the necessity to integrate Brahmos with SH/Rafales?Did IAF integrate Brahmos with the mirages? And You really think that a medium class fighter jet with a hardened under carriage carrying 3-3.5 tonne missile will be able to takeoff from ski jump AC? Remember both aircrafts are not designed to operate from ski jump deck.
 
It ll be not wise to not integrate our own missile wherever possible.
From the plethora of missile s we are developing, we should not buy any missile.
We can buy things where we are lacking.
We are lacking with LRASM,LRASM-ER,AGM 158,AIM 120D,GBU 105 censor fuzed weapons & AIM 260. Neither India or France have any thing to offer similar to the above mentioned weapons except Meteor.
 
We are not getting aim 260 any time soon. Presently the meteor mica combo seems superior.
AIm260 will definitely come to India,if IN choose SH. It's logical & safe to fight your enemy with enemy's enemy. If USN wants to put a check on Chinese navy,then SH armed with AIM 260 in Tricolour is their best shot.
 
Rafale N is not operational. The initial lease will need to see the supply of M and N right from the get-go, so the IN can't wait for Dassault to take its time when the final decision is expected to be made this year.
In this case it must also be considered that the F 414 at 116 KN is not operational either, and that it will be operational at best for the delivery of production aircraft.
 
That's the entire reasoning. The Rafale only has the storm shadow/scalp EG and exocet. While the superhornet can't use harpoon, JASSM/JASSM-ER, JSM, LRASM, SLAM-ER. So superhornet has far more options. But the entire reason superhornet will win is because of it fitting the lift and hangar and also the commonality of the ge-414 with the tedbf.
Rafale will have all indigenious weapon integrated on IAF Rafale as part of ISE.
 
This is likely to be quicker than folding or unfolding the F-18 wings, because it can be done simultaneously with the rest of the aircraft preparation, while the F-18 wing deployment prevents weapons from being loaded onto the wings during movement.

The SH can carry weapons on the folded side, it's merely an AAM after all. All the heavies are on the inner points.

So the SH can get fully rigged below deck, climb up, unfold and fly. Which is still an advantage.
Brahmos is too jeavy for both SH & Rafale,

Brahmos NG. Even LCA can carry it.

and LRSAM is most probably superior to Brahmos in all aspects, except in speed. Its smart , long ranged, with credible sea skimming capabilities & light weight. If ER version is offered then, we canntarget things up to 900-1000 km away.

No such thing as inferiority or superiority, they are both in a different class and can be used together.