Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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Rajput Lion said:
If you understood the difference between SFDR(solid fuel ducted ramjet) powered Meteor and single-pulse solid rocket powered AIM-120D, you wouldn't make such a blanket statement.

Truth is, AIM-120D is outranged and lacks end game kinematics of both Meteor and PL-15(also R-77M). Unfortunately, your false American pride can't accept this truth.
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Remember what I told you of sweetie's lack of technical background being a handicap. Not surprisingly people of sweetie's background are occupying the high table in some of the most prestigious military projects in the history of their nation. And I don't just mean their academic qualifications or lack of it resembling sweetie's . Result : F-35 .

Then there's the US Army's scout hptr program too which's been going on since the mid 90's due to see a hptr selected before this decade is out. Fingers crossed. Ja sweetie ? @Innominate
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Thde IN tender is for 16 single seaters and 8 twin seaters. The trainer word has been used in the context of two seater. One aspect which has been completely overlooked by all the members is that IN needs more inter operatibility between its own assets than with that of IAF. IN has inducted P-8Is and also MH-60 helos and F-18 can just join in the web of these machines.
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Yeas, IN needs an aircraft which better works/communicate with the existing assets.
Rajput Lion said:
USAF is actively pursuing AIM-260(with maybe Ramjet/Scramjet/Multiple pulse solid rocket motor??!!), which means they know that AIM-120D is now outdated against Meteor/PL-15/R-77M.
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Really? By that standard LCA mk1, 1a is already outdated as IAF wants to induct MK2.
 
Hydra said:
Yeas, IN needs an aircraft which better works/communicate with the existing assets.

Really? By that standard LCA mk1, 1a is already outdated as IAF wants to induct MK2.
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AIM-120D has been outdated since more advance missiles like Meteor/PL-15/R-77M/R-37M became operational. USAF is late in the game. Even our Astra 2 is coming online "very soon" followed by the game-changing Astra 3.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
If you understood the difference between SFDR(solid fuel ducted ramjet) powered Meteor and single-pulse solid rocket powered AIM-120D, you wouldn't make such a blanket statement.

Truth is, AIM-120D is outranged and lacks end game kinematics of both Meteor and PL-15(also R-77M). Unfortunately, your false American pride can't accept this truth.
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Once again here are the facts.... Aim-120D broke the US record for long range air to air missile kill which was held by Pheonix missile of 126 miles which is over 200km. Aim-120D very likely launched at a target 140 miles that is around 225kms. So "officially" what was made public about the Aim-120Ds range was obviously wrong and the test proved the Aim-120D is a 200km+ missile.

Those are the facts, sunshine.

Unlike you I'm willing to accept change and when a Greek, Brit or Frog official says Meteor hit a target beyond 200kms I'll easily accept the claim.

You may now rant like a maniac making emotional claims that only your delusional mind believes . :)
 
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How is meteor a mach 4 bvr for a long range btw? All SFDR studies & sims, analysis done by DRDL is for mach 2.5-3 range with angle of attack 0-10deg. So how does Meteor, a throttle-capable endgame priority bvr can fly at higher speed like normal sam? I know it uses both solid rocket motor & ducted ramjet but still it does not add up unless it has SFDR solely for the endgame phase when the seeker is fully locked on?
I doubt its mach 4 all thru btw, just the initial phase to get close to target maybe.
 
marich01 said:
How is meteor a mach 4 bvr for a long range btw? All SFDR studies & sims, analysis done by DRDL is for mach 2.5-3 range with angle of attack 0-10deg. So how does Meteor, a throttle-capable endgame priority bvr can fly at higher speed like normal sam? I know it uses both solid rocket motor & ducted ramjet but still it does not add up unless it has SFDR solely for the endgame phase when the seeker is fully locked on?
I doubt its mach 4 all thru btw, just the initial phase to get close to target maybe.
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The ballistic range of a missile leaving at Mach 4.5 at 45° is ~260km, obviously without taking into account air friction, nor gliding capabilities.
But fired at high altitude and speed, with an altitude differential of 5000m, against a well tracked target, not too manoeuvrable or fast and unaware of being engaged, 200km is not strictly speaking impossible.
I suppose the idea is primarily to threaten AWACS or tankers.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The ballistic range of a missile leaving at Mach 4.5 at 45° is ~260km, obviously without taking into account air friction, nor gliding capabilities.
But fired at high altitude and speed, with an altitude differential of 5000m, against a well tracked target, not too manoeuvrable or fast and unaware of being engaged, 200km is not strictly speaking impossible.
I suppose the idea is primarily to threaten AWACS or tankers.
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Precisely . The notion that Meteors or any missile possessing a speed of Mach 3-5 doing DMax at 200 kms + targeting FA is implausible. This isn't to say it's impossible but you need them to be hypersonic with similar ranges for them to successfully engage FAs consistently . Till then slower moving aircraft like AWACS , Transporters , Refuellers etc are fair targets for such missiles
 
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Innominate said:
Once again here are the facts.... Aim-120D broke the US record for long range air to air missile kill which was held by Pheonix missile of 126 miles which is over 200km. Aim-120D very likely launched at a target 140 miles that is around 225kms. So "officially" what was made public about the Aim-120Ds range was obviously wrong and the test proved the Aim-120D is a 200km+ missile.

Those are the facts, sunshine.

Unlike you I'm willing to accept change and when a Greek, Brit or Frog official says Meteor hit a target beyond 200kms I'll easily accept the claim.

You may now rant like a maniac making emotional claims that only your delusional mind believes . :)
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Poor sweetie , missing the wood for the trees , heads up in the clouds , gets the wrong end of the stick & on & on & on .
 
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Rajput Lion said:
AIM-120D has been outdated since more advance missiles like Meteor/PL-15/R-77M/R-37M became operational. USAF is late in the game. Even our Astra 2 is coming online "very soon" followed by the game-changing Astra 3.
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Lol, an air to air missile become outdated when it is no longer a threat to the aircraft. AIM 120 D will keep away most of the aircraft flying away or shoot down today & tomorrow.
 
Hydra said:
Lol, an air to air missile become outdated when it is no longer a threat to the aircraft. AIM 120 D will keep away most of the aircraft flying away or shoot down today & tomorrow.
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Its predecessor could do jack against MKI and its EW. AIM-120D would be rendered useless too.

F-35/F-22 fire AIM-120D and J-20B fires PL-15 simultaneously. My money is on J-20B/ PL-15 combo coming out on top. Although if US could detect and shoot first, AIM-120D still would be somewhat effective!! Although best missiles to kill stealth planes are IIR guided missiles like Mica-IR and ASRAAM.
 
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marich01 said:
How is meteor a mach 4 bvr for a long range btw? All SFDR studies & sims, analysis done by DRDL is for mach 2.5-3 range with angle of attack 0-10deg. So how does Meteor, a throttle-capable endgame priority bvr can fly at higher speed like normal sam? I know it uses both solid rocket motor & ducted ramjet but still it does not add up unless it has SFDR solely for the endgame phase when the seeker is fully locked on?
I doubt its mach 4 all thru btw, just the initial phase to get close to target maybe.
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The solid rocket motor gives it mach 4+ speed to light up the ramjet. And once ramjet propulsion begins, missile cruises at around mach 2 to mach 3 until it achieves lock-on from its own seeker. Then in the endgame it could increase its burn rate and have again mach 4+ terminal speed.

Meteor and its SFDR propulsion are the current crown jewel of BVR missile technology. That's why every nation is trying to pursue it.
 
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Innominate said:
Once again here are the facts.... Aim-120D broke the US record for long range air to air missile kill which was held by Pheonix missile of 126 miles which is over 200km. Aim-120D very likely launched at a target 140 miles that is around 225kms. So "officially" what was made public about the Aim-120Ds range was obviously wrong and the test proved the Aim-120D is a 200km+ missile.

Those are the facts, sunshine.

Unlike you I'm willing to accept change and when a Greek, Brit or Frog official says Meteor hit a target beyond 200kms I'll easily accept the claim.

You may now rant like a maniac making emotional claims that only your delusional mind believes . :)
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Sweetie, Greek AF just officially announced 200 km range for Meteor. Your AIM-120D can reach high ranges only in lofted trajectory. Meteor can hit very long ranges in a straight line.

Ramjet>> Solid rocket motor. Learn it, respect it, live with it.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Its predecessor could do jack against MKI and its EW. AIM-120D would be rendered useless too.

F-35/F-22 fire AIM-120D and J-20B fires PL-15 simultaneously. My money is on J-20B/ PL-15 combo coming out on top. Although if US could detect and shoot first, AIM-120D still would be somewhat effective!! Although best missiles to kill stealth planes are IIR guided missiles like Mica-IR and ASRAAM.
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Pulling claims out of your butt.

MKI was shot at by an Aim-120c5 now that version is considered less capable than aim-120c7 and D. MKI was lucky the US refuse to give Pakistanis the C7 or you'd be really butt hurt about losing two fighters instead of one.

J-20s are seen first by US sensors and will shoot first. J-20 pilots won't know a missile is coming their way until it goes pitbull at couple of miles and that is if it ever goes pitbull since aim--120d can be guided by E-2D or other F-35 that didn't launch the missile.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
The Greeks have withdrawn the twiter
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Understandable, as they were breaching OPSEC set by MBDA. MBDA has always called Meteor's official range as 100+ kms. But now the cat is out.
Innominate said:
Pulling claims out of your butt.

MKI was shot at by an Aim-120c5 now that version is considered less capable than aim-120c7 and D. MKI was lucky the US refuse to give Pakistanis the C7 or you'd be really butt hurt about losing two fighters instead of one.

J-20s are seen first by US sensors and will shoot first. J-20 pilots won't know a missile is coming their way until it goes pitbull at couple of miles and that is if it ever goes pitbull since aim--120d can be guided by E-2D or other F-35 that didn't launch the missile.
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Nope. MKI successfully evaded 5 AMRAAMS. Something which no other plane has ever done. It was Abhinandan's Mig-21 which was shot down by AIM-120C5. But he had already shot down your illustrious F-16 with Archer by then.

See Sweetie, unlike your country and your ally Pak, India doesn't have a tradition of hiding its war loses. Continue to live in denial.
 
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Innominate said:
J-20s are seen first by US sensors and will shoot first. J-20 pilots won't know a missile is coming their way until it goes pitbull at couple of miles and that is if it ever goes pitbull since aim--120d can be guided by E-2D or other F-35 that didn't launch the missile.
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I'd sincerely like to see that bravado out here once hostilities actually do break out between China & the US. As it is you'd be operating with a huge handicap being thousands of kms away from home whereas you'd be in China's backyard.

Just pray those Raptors & Lightnings, if they survive the first encounter with whatever the Chinese throw your way , don't spend 48 hrs or more in R&R adorning hangars but that the turn around time is a respectable 4-5 hrs enabling multiple sorties in a day .

Otherwise you'd be fighting the air war with old fatboys like the various variants of the Eagles & Hornets & the middle aged not so slim Falcons. Sounds like fun when they go up against the Mighty Dragons, Red Eagles, Vigourous Dragons & all the other dragons & eagles in their inventory.

Ja, sweetie?
 
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