Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

[Optimist]

So 6 months after announcing Rafale would get SAID/DEAD. They found out they couldn't do it..no money or no tech? Is this like all the other stuff, they they say they didn't need till they were in a position to get it? Only to find out they can't get it after all.

IFC 2022: France to equip Rafale for SEAD/DEAD mission

France is to equip its Dassault Rafale combat aircraft for the suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)/destruction of enemy air defences (DEAD) mission from 2030, which...

www.janes.com

Is the word "Could" understood in Australia?

So you posted false information about the Rafale and got caught out posting a next gen FCAS model...Deceptive boy.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

You are really a pest who cannot be explained anything because you distort everything we say to interpret it in a negative way.

• France does not need SEAD/DEAD as practiced by the US because it is not what its doctrine recommends
• You may have noticed that the Rafale has been exported and is increasingly so, which means that some countries do not have the same doctrine as France.
• For these countries, if they ask for it, we can equip the Rafale with a classic SEAD/DEAD capability, we have developed for a long time a "Carbon" POD which is at the level of the NGJ and which proved its effectiveness during the MACE (Multidomain Airborne Cyber and Electronic warfare) exercises already in August 2000 during the NATO MACE X field trials.
• But for us this POD was only a demonstrator to prove that we were capable of extremely fast processing, SPECTRA being the operational system that needed this speed.

 

[Optimist]

Read it from the link and weep sunshine. big announcement followed by..naaaa too hard.

Speaking at the IQPC International Fighter Conference 2022 (IFC 2022) in Berlin, Colonel Benjamin Souberbielle, deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force, said that the ongoing Ukraine conflict had demonstrated the importance of taking down enemy air-defence systems, and that the capability is to be integrated onto the Rafale in two phases.

“SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said.

As noted by the colonel, the initial capability will be integrated into F4-standard Rafales, with a higher-end capability earmarked for F5 aircraft.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Hopefully our Indian Rafales are integrated with NGARM. That should transform it into a kickass SEAD/DEAD platform from a stand-off range.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Read it from the link and weep sunshine. big announcement followed by..naaaa too hard.

Speaking at the IQPC International Fighter Conference 2022 (IFC 2022) in Berlin, Colonel Benjamin Souberbielle, deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force, said that the ongoing Ukraine conflict had demonstrated the importance of taking down enemy air-defence systems, and that the capability is to be integrated onto the Rafale in two phases.

“SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said.

As noted by the colonel, the initial capability will be integrated into F4-standard Rafales, with a higher-end capability earmarked for F5 aircraft.

You shouldn't believe everything the colonels say.

 

[Optimist]

You shouldn't believe everything the colonels say.

I'm glad you said it. When I said you can't trust a frenchman. The french fanboys had a fit and my post was edited. So you say you can't believe Souberbielle, the deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force. Why would I disagree?

So you can't believe either of them?
SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said

Or
Lagarde, the French Ministry, after he found out how much it would cost? and said he will take advantage of other EU members "whereas France's allies have such capabilities"

I don't know if we can believe you, you said nether and contradicted them both. You said "France does not need SEAD/DEAD as practiced by the US because it is not what its doctrine recommends"

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

You really have problems with logic:
To say that you should not believe everything a person says is equivalent to never believing that person?
And then you generalize it to the French Minister of Defence?
According to you, if a colonel and a minister of defence of a country say things that are not compatible, which one should be believed?
Stop torturing your mind to find evidence that confirms your prejudices.

 

[Innominate]

I'm glad you said it. When I said you can't trust a frenchman. The french fanboys had a fit and my post was edited. So you say you can't believe Souberbielle, the deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force. Why would I disagree?

So you can't believe either of them?
SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said

Or
Lagarde, the French Ministry, after he found out how much it would cost? and said he will take advantage of other EU members "whereas France's allies have such capabilities"

I don't know if we can believe you, you said nether and contradicted them both. You said "France does not need SEAD/DEAD as practiced by the US because it is not what its doctrine recommends"

Such BS spin coming from him he uses the same excuses of it's not our doctrine or can't believe everything he says when his argument fails. He said the same thing about Safran's CEO when he said the Rafale has gotten really heavy and hasn't had a thrust upgrade since it entered service, Picoil's response was can't believe what he says or what does he know about Rafale.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Such BS spin coming from him he uses the same excuses of it's not our doctrine or can't believe everything he says when his argument fails. He said the same thing about Safran's CEO when he said the Rafale has gotten really heavy and hasn't had a thrust upgrade since it entered service, Picoil's response was can't believe what he says or what does he know about Rafale.

There are some facts that are easy to verify:

When the Rafale was first deployed by the French Air Force, its MTOW was 24500 kg and today it is still 24500 kg and at that weight its payload is exceptional and unequalled in proportion to its empty weight. So I don't see how one can say that the Rafale has become really heavy and be credible at the same time.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Just look at how it beat the F-18 SH to the punch in the IN evaluation, on the issue of load, while the F-18 benefited from an upgraded version of the F414 and the Rafale was with the still too weak M88!!!

 

[Optimist]

Such BS spin coming from him he uses the same excuses of it's not our doctrine or can't believe everything he says when his argument fails. He said the same thing about Safran's CEO when he said the Rafale has gotten really heavy and hasn't had a thrust upgrade since it entered service, Picoil's response was can't believe what he says or what does he know about Rafale.

He is just a chronic deceiver. Notice how he twists the increased weight of the rafale, that you said. To say that the MTOW is the same. Of course it is the same. The engine hasn't changed for years.

Then he uses the fa-18f, being a larger aircraft than the rafale. To twist that the carrier's ability to trap is exceeded. The engine has nothing to do with it. Though it did spec out to a full load on takeoff. Again he is being deceitful. Everything that comes out of his mouth is BS

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

To twist that the carrier's ability to trap is exceeded.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

He is just a chronic deceiver. Notice how he twists the increased weight of the rafale, that you said. To say that the MTOW is the same. Of course it is the same. The engine hasn't changed for years.

Then he uses the fa-18f, being a larger aircraft than the rafale. To twist that the carrier's ability to trap is exceeded. The engine has nothing to do with it. Though it did spec out to a full load on takeoff. Again he is being deceitful. Everything that comes out of his mouth is BS

The problem with you is that everything has to be explained to you in detail, otherwise you will misunderstand. In fact I think you misunderstand on purpose, you can't be that stupid. So I'll explain it to you:
The F-18 SH is an aircraft with an empty weight of 14552 kg that can carry a payload of 8050 kg, while the Rafale is an aircraft whose weight is around 10000 kg depending on the version and which can carry a payload of 9500 kg.
So the F-18 SH is a heavy aircraft that can only carry a small payload in proportion to its weight, while the Rafale is a light aircraft that can carry an impressive payload in proportion to its weight.
This is why the Rafale is better suited to Indian aircraft carriers than the F-18 SH, and in fact one can deduce from this performance that the F-18 SH is underpowered and the Rafale is more than adequately powered.

 

[randomradio]

Read it from the link and weep sunshine. big announcement followed by..naaaa too hard.

Speaking at the IQPC International Fighter Conference 2022 (IFC 2022) in Berlin, Colonel Benjamin Souberbielle, deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force, said that the ongoing Ukraine conflict had demonstrated the importance of taking down enemy air-defence systems, and that the capability is to be integrated onto the Rafale in two phases.

“SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said.

As noted by the colonel, the initial capability will be integrated into F4-standard Rafales, with a higher-end capability earmarked for F5 aircraft.

That's in reference to a dedicated SEAD weapon. Rafale is already capable of DEAD.

 

[randomradio]

You shouldn't believe everything the colonels say.

SEAD is necessary, it helps keep radars busy and distracted at a very low cost. We shouldn't forget that there are more SAM radars than Rafales.

 

[Optimist]

The problem with you is that everything has to be explained to you in detail, otherwise you will misunderstand. In fact I think you misunderstand on purpose, you can't be that stupid. So I'll explain it to you:
The F-18 SH is an aircraft with an empty weight of 14552 kg that can carry a payload of 8050 kg, while the Rafale is an aircraft whose weight is around 10000 kg depending on the version and which can carry a payload of 9500 kg.
So the F-18 SH is a heavy aircraft that can only carry a small payload in proportion to its weight, while the Rafale is a light aircraft that can carry an impressive payload in proportion to its weight.
This is why the Rafale is better suited to Indian aircraft carriers than the F-18 SH, and in fact one can deduce from this performance that the F-18 SH is underpowered and the Rafale is more than adequately powered.

I've said india should get the rafale..try again. It's you customers that say the Rafale is underpowered.

Why you are bringing the SH into the rafale getting heavier is beyond me.
The SH took off fine...the bring back load was above the trapping capability of the carrier.

The delta wing does carry a load.
max rafale 10,000 24,500 kg load 14.5
max SH 14,552 29,937 kg load 15.4

 

[Optimist]

That's in reference to a dedicated SEAD weapon. Rafale is already capable of DEAD.

Not really, it has limited dead weapons and capability.

 

[randomradio]

Not really, it has limited dead weapons and capability.

DEAD weapons are just regular precision bombs and missiles meant to attack SAM sites, the Rafale has more capable bombs than the US for this task, like the Hammer, although the US seems to be catching up somewhat.

A SEAD weapon is something that targets radars via their emissions.

Why does the Rafale need this now? It has less to do with the Rafale and more to do with the latest Russian SAMs capable of shooting down aircraft up to 600Km. Earlier, the best the Russians could do was 250Km, so intelligence aircraft could comfortably get close enough to surveil a target. But today, terrain has become invisible to such aircraft. For example, an aircraft at an altitude of 12-18Km can only see 400-500Km of the ground at its limit, and sensor limitations actually force you to move in even closer, less than 250Km. Meaning, intelligence aircraft have to fly well within the kill range of these new SAMs.

So Rafales with SEAD weapons can allow such aircraft to operate within kill zones much more safely. Firing these weapons will force the radars down, which will then allow intel aircraft to pop up above horizon, take radar pics for a few minutes and skedaddle before the radars are activated again. It allows the flying side to play a cat and mouse game in what is effectively a no-win situation for them. And if a radar's destroyed in the process, eyy, bonus.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I've said india should get the rafale..try again. It's you customers that say the Rafale is underpowered.

Why you are bringing the SH into the rafale getting heavier is beyond me.
The SH took off fine...the bring back load was above the trapping capability of the carrier.

The delta wing does carry a load.
max rafale 10,000 24,500 kg load 14.5
max SH 14,552 29,937 kg load 15.4

14,5/24,5 = 0,5918
15,4/29,937 = 0,5144
Not only is the Rafale's load factor better, but the extra 900 kg that the F-18 SH carries is not enough to compensate for the aircraft's greater fuel consumption due to its weight and poor aerodynamics, which means that the F-18 SH has an available load for weapons and tanks of 8050 kg, whereas the Rafale can carry 9500 kg, and in addition it has almost double the range.

Why you are bringing the SH into the rafale getting heavier is beyond me.

I don't know if you noticed but the topic title is: Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

 

[Optimist]

This was my reply to your deceitful posts

You then doubled down and made your own nonsense up.. Now you want to change the subject instead of addressing what you said...more deceit.

I'm glad you said it. When I said you can't trust a frenchman. The french fanboys had a fit and my post was edited. So you say you can't believe Souberbielle, the deputy leader of the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) Operational Team, French Air and Space Force. Why would I disagree?

So you can't believe either of them?
SEAD will be a core need, and we are looking at getting it onto the Rafale in 2030 using weapons that rely on either speed or saturation,” Col Souberbielle said

Or
Lagarde, the French Ministry, after he found out how much it would cost? and said he will take advantage of other EU members "whereas France's allies have such capabilities"

I don't know if we can believe you, you said nether and contradicted them both. You said "France does not need SEAD/DEAD as practiced by the US because it is not what its doctrine recommends"

You are really a pest who cannot be explained anything because you distort everything we say to interpret it in a negative way.

• France does not need SEAD/DEAD as practiced by the US because it is not what its doctrine recommends
• You may have noticed that the Rafale has been exported and is increasingly so, which means that some countries do not have the same doctrine as France.
• For these countries, if they ask for it, we can equip the Rafale with a classic SEAD/DEAD capability, we have developed for a long time a "Carbon" POD which is at the level of the NGJ and which proved its effectiveness during the MACE (Multidomain Airborne Cyber and Electronic warfare) exercises already in August 2000 during the NATO MACE X field trials.
• But for us this POD was only a demonstrator to prove that we were capable of extremely fast processing, SPECTRA being the operational system that needed this speed.