Narendra Modi govt clears Rs 6,500-crore missile (NASAMS) deal with America

How different is NASAMS III?

NASAMS III will be a high mobility variant akin to the Tor missile system. Current NASAMS II high mobility variants must stop, stabilize, acquire and launch, so in that respect they're analogous to the standard Russian Pantsir-S1.

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NASAMS III will be able to acquire and launch without needing to stabilize the chassis or stop movement, so it's more like the Tor or Arctic Pantsir.

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Visually, NASAMS III should resemble the AVC-30 mounted Hisar-A, though I don't believe that the Hisar-A missile system is capable of firing while on the move.

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What components are Norwegian?

The FSC, architecture and some supporting elements such as radio links. But that's not exactly what I mean when I said it was a Norwegian project. Being a collaboration with Raytheon (though initiated by Kongsberg), Kongsberg generates royalties from any sales of NASAMS and given it was a Norwegian program, and still is, that's what I mean when I say it's a Norwegian project.

Think of it in the same way you would of our Nansen class frigates. Spanish hulls, that were themselves derived from the American Burke series, American radars and illuminators and missile FCS, missiles too, Italian guns, British torpedoes and sonar, Norwegian architecture, ASW control systems and anti-ship missiles, American engines... but still a Norwegian program and if sold, would generate revenue for Norwegian ship builders, despite them needing to source products from other nations.

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Equally you could say the same with the Gripen or even India's Tejas, both of which, despite being national programs, are festooned with foreign kit.

@Kvasir I'm most interested in radar and how its different from Akash SR-SAM or what mk-2 won't provide.

Regrettably I know squat about Akash, so I wouldn't be able to do a comparison.
 
NASAMS III will be a high mobility variant akin to the Tor missile system. Current NASAMS II high mobility variants must stop, stabilize, acquire and launch, so in that respect they're analogous to the standard Russian Pantsir-S1.

127.jpg


NASAMS III will be able to acquire and launch without needing to stabilize the chassis or stop movement, so it's more like the Tor or Arctic Pantsir.

cc471852-34a0-11e7-8663-b22bc7352b12_1320x770_182625.jpg


Visually, NASAMS III should resemble the AVC-30 mounted Hisar-A, though I don't believe that the Hisar-A missile system is capable of firing while on the move.

e1fc251a3d08727bf12a0834721443b2.jpg




The FSC, architecture and some supporting elements such as radio links. But that's not exactly what I mean when I said it was a Norwegian project. Being a collaboration with Raytheon (though initiated by Kongsberg), Kongsberg generates royalties from any sales of NASAMS and given it was a Norwegian program, and still is, that's what I mean when I say it's a Norwegian project.

Think of it in the same way you would of our Nansen class frigates. Spanish hulls, that were themselves derived from the American Burke series, American radars and illuminators and missile FCS, missiles too, Italian guns, British torpedoes and sonar, Norwegian architecture, ASW control systems and anti-ship missiles, American engines... but still a Norwegian program and if sold, would generate revenue for Norwegian ship builders, despite them needing to source products from other nations.

dLSI1Ze.jpg


Equally you could say the same with the Gripen or even India's Tejas, both of which, despite being national programs, are festooned with foreign kit.



Regrettably I know squat about Akash, so I wouldn't be able to do a comparison.
NASAMS 3 is not yet out. That means the current NASAMS is not special in anyway.

Next, Tejas is only having foreign engine, all other components are Indian.

Turkey's SAM is not at all good. There is no point comparing the two. Turkey does not know to develop their own radar tracking, radar guidance, seekers etc
 
NASAMS III will be a high mobility variant akin to the Tor missile system. Current NASAMS II high mobility variants must stop, stabilize, acquire and launch, so in that respect they're analogous to the standard Russian Pantsir-S1.

Okay, so it's just a platform difference. That shouldn't affect us if we are buying it to protect static targets.
 
Equally you could say the same with the Gripen or even India's Tejas, both of which, despite being national programs, are festooned with foreign kit.

I would compare it to the FGFA. The FGFA will have our own missions computers, datalinks, cockpit etc, but the main stuff like airframe, engine and radar etc are Russian. So we get royalty and stuff when it's exported.
 
There's been developmental studies done on turning IRIS-T (AIM-2000 in Norwegian service) into a surface-to-surface missile system for short-range defence against land targets and naval ships. Norway maintains large stocks of IRIS-T that it's phasing out in favor of AIM-9X Block II and reworking into air-to-surface missiles.

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I don't see why the same couldn't be done with AMRAAM, AIM-9X or ESSM though, among other missiles that NASAMS is qualified for like Stunner or MHTK.

NASAMS 3 is not yet out.

Yeah, I know. Might be a surprise but I have intimate insight into the workings of Kongsberg and its programs;). It's in development.

Turkey's SAM is not at all good. There is no point comparing the two.

Wasn't making a comparision, just noting that NASAMS III, like NASAMS II will be a high mobility variant that resembles Hisar-A. In the case of NASAMS III, Norway is re-purposing its aging fleet of M113s as mobile missile carriers for IRIS-T, AIM-9X and AMRAAM and possibly ESSM.

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The same is likely for some of the ACSV APCs that Norway's buying as M113 replacements.

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It's also possible that NASAMS III could be fitted onto Norway's Bandvagn 206 APCs.

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Like Sweden has done with its BV 308s.

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whom will these protect ? Delhi. Who have approved it ? Delhi. Do the math. Actually this could be a real news based on ind-us secret deals. just making news. (These protect DC BTW)

Actually I approve of this hastiness. All cities with defense production units should get this too.

Who knows? We are buying a lot of different types of QRSAM.

There's the IAF's order from Israel already. Then the interest in DRDO's QRSAM. And the army will be buying a pretty large number of SPYDERS also. Now the talk of NASAMS.
 
First of all, this is fake news and no such discussions has been going on. The same person - Ajit Kumar Bubey has been peddling this news for some time now which is just his own news rather than any official confirmation of the deal. The NASAMS make no sense in delhi as the area is already in the middle of Indian land and not at the coast or borders to have aerial threats from planes and cruise missiles. NASAMS can't engage ballistic missiles.

I see no reason to take this seriously at all.

Well it is gaining traction:

Like Washington and Moscow, Delhi too to get missile shield - Times of India
 
Norway is an awesome country. Seriously punches way above their weight for military matters.

Israel as well. Meanwhile Germany is the exact opposite.
 
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Norway is an awesome country. Seriously punches way above their weight for military matters.

Israel as well. Meanwhile Germany is the exact opposite.
Germany is occupied by USA. After WW2, Germany was occupied by USSR and USA by dividing the territory of Germany amongst them. But after USSR collapse, USSR left Germany while USA continues to stay. Germany constitution is written by USA. Even countries like Japan, South Korea etc are under USA occupation
 
Germany is occupied by USA. After WW2, Germany was occupied by USSR and USA by dividing the territory of Germany amongst them. But after USSR collapse, USSR left Germany while USA continues to stay. Germany constitution is written by USA. Even countries like Japan, South Korea etc are under USA occupation

Germany was completely free of ANY direct influence by 1990. Their restrictions before that compared to SK and Japan are basically nothing. To blame USA for Germany's military incompetence beyond a very small degree is inaccurate imo.

There wasn't even an anti war clause in their constitution. West Germany was extremely militarized.
 
Germany was completely free of ANY direct influence by 1990. Their restrictions before that compared to SK and Japan are basically nothing. To blame USA for Germany's military incompetence beyond a very small degree is inaccurate imo.

There wasn't even an anti war clause in their constitution. West Germany was extremely militarized.
USA still has several highly operational military base in Germany with many high end equipments ready on the go. Does this say something? Germany got free of USSR influence in 1990 after berlin wall collapse. When did it get free of USA influence?
 
USA still has several highly operational military base in Germany with many high end equipments ready on the go. Does this say something? Germany got free of USSR influence in 1990 after berlin wall collapse. When did it get free of USA influence?

What does that have to due with their military capability? You know Germany like any other sovereign nation could simply ask USA to leave, like France/NZ did. Norway is reliant on the USA too, but doesn't completely abandon a competent military like the Germans have. 4/128 Typhoons operational, 0 subs operational. Like 60 tanks operational etc..
 
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Who knows? We are buying a lot of different types of QRSAM.

There's the IAF's order from Israel already. Then the interest in DRDO's QRSAM. And the army will be buying a pretty large number of SPYDERS also. Now the talk of NASAMS.


exactly. this very well could be one of those special weapon deals which will get automatic approval of the US Congress. same will be done on indian side and voila monsieur, we have these protecting delhi and every single thing it entails.

these are excellent stuff. see @Kvasir s explanations. only thing is, this is one more in the long line of QRSAMs. it's actually a strategic decision which makes sense. if a location is defended with 3 -5 different types of operational SAM, that whole mass attack theory can be actually taken care of, so yeah, spending money on different types of proven SAMs always is a good idea.

What is so great about AMRAAM based defence? Doesn't India already have Akash missiles? Why does india need AMRAAM based missiles which does very little?

Washington DC is being protected is irrelevant. Why is India securing delhi with it? Also, how do you know that this is not fake news?

please bear with me and think about this in a larger perspective and keep @Kvasir 's posts in mind while I do so.

US has a strategic advantage from not being hostile with mexico or canada, which we do not have . so, US needs only the world's best SAM to protect DC from long range missiles mostly. US did that. why long range only ? cause sensibly speaking US doesn't see any nation in the american continent a potential missile threat compared to russia or china. in fact they took a Norwegian system and made an US version of it. it simply proves the quality of the Norwegian system. the fact that it is AMRAAM based is secondary to me strategically. it has to use some kind of missile, AMRAAM it is, better than being another unique snow flake missile.

so, if US thinks that these Norwegians made a good enough system to protect olympus on earth, maybe we can also use it to take down chinese winds in the skies of delhi.

why fret on AMRAAM ? its better that it is AMRAAM.
 
exactly. this very well could be one of those special weapon deals which will get automatic approval of the US Congress. same will be done on indian side and voila monsieur, we have these protecting delhi and every single thing it entails.

these are excellent stuff. see @Kvasir s explanations. only thing is, this is one more in the long line of QRSAMs. it's actually a strategic decision which makes sense. if a location is defended with 3 -5 different types of operational SAM, that whole mass attack theory can be actually taken care of, so yeah, spending money on different types of proven SAMs always is a good idea.



please bear with me and think about this in a larger perspective and keep @Kvasir 's posts in mind while I do so.

US has a strategic advantage from not being hostile with mexico or canada, which we do not have . so, US needs only the world's best SAM to protect DC from long range missiles mostly. US did that. why long range only ? cause sensibly speaking US doesn't see any nation in the american continent a potential missile threat compared to russia or china. in fact they took a Norwegian system and made an US version of it. it simply proves the quality of the Norwegian system. the fact that it is AMRAAM based is secondary to me strategically. it has to use some kind of missile, AMRAAM it is, better than being another unique snow flake missile.

so, if US thinks that these Norwegians made a good enough system to protect olympus on earth, maybe we can also use it to take down chinese winds in the skies of delhi.

why fret on AMRAAM ? its better that it is AMRAAM.

What are you saying man?

The mass attack is by ballistic missile, not aircrafts of drones. No one can do mass attack with aircrafts unless they want all their aircrafts to be down after just hitting one enemy city! So, let us talk of protecting against ballistic missiles, not against aircrafts. How will NASAMS help in the process?

The fact that AMRAAM is used make things even worse. It means that India will be defended by a sub-par SAM. AMRAAM is meant to be fired from a plane and is not fully powerful SAM that can be considered fit enough to take enemy planes. AAM missiles involve a lot o trade-off and have low PK (probability of kill) due to these trade off. Am I supposed to believe that a 200kg AMRAAM will be as effective as 720kg Akash missile? This NASAMS has 30km range while Akash MK1 has 30km range too?
 
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But....but....butt.. i heard Pakistani offensive capabilities are like mosquito bite for "Mighty India" and they are not bothered anymore?
Then why such high expenditure to protect India from "Our Wrath"? :eek::D:p:cool:
We still consider Pakistani offencive capabilities as mosquito bites but why let mosquito bite when we can use mosquito repellent like ALL OUT and Electric Raquet to prevent the bites, since we also afford to buy repellent unlike some beggars who can't since they are living on charity or becoming a RANDI.😁😁😁

For Indian offensive capabilities too pakistan is mosquito. We can finish it like hitting mosquito with spatula....😉😉😉
 
What are you saying man?

The mass attack is by ballistic missile, not aircrafts of drones. No one can do mass attack with aircrafts unless they want all their aircrafts to be down after just hitting one enemy city! So, let us talk of protecting against ballistic missiles, not against aircrafts. How will NASAMS help in the process?

The fact that AMRAAM is used make things even worse. It means that India will be defended by a sub-par SAM. AMRAAM is meant to be fired from a plane and is not fully powerful SAM that can be considered fit enough to take enemy planes. AAM missiles involve a lot o trade-off and have low PK (probability of kill) due to these trade off. Am I supposed to believe that a 200kg AMRAAM will be as effective as 720kg Akash missile? This NASAMS has 30km range while Akash MK1 has 30km range too?


this is a working proven system, mate. supposed to believe is not the point. it has worked in simulations and actual tests. now take your 200kgVs720kg argument and turn it around on it's head. quite obviously it will involve a booster of some sort. even if you add that weight to AMRAAM weight, the advantages of the 200+boosterVs720 becomes quite obvious and also quite obvious why it is preferred. cause it's better.

what if the chinese develop a radar jammer which targets the akash batteries, specifically their operating band ? won't having this US system save the day ? rather than lose it moan and then realise that we should have another one in stock ? i would. air defence of Delhi during war is going to save the whole defence apparatus of india. Delhi isn't any other location in India defence wise. India can raise another Gurgaon or bangalore today. It can't raise a Delhi so easily.