PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
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T50 belly looks like an ordinary 4th fighter, Russian only copied some of the F22 design. If stealth does exists in real world, I'd be compromised.
New Ninth Example of Russian 5th Generation Sukhoi Su–57 (PAK FA) With Its Enormous Fuel Tanks Spotted at Zhukovsky.
That's finally is smth upgraded Salyut made AL-31F, possibly for China's J-10 new variant
India didn't spend billions for India specific changes for Mig-29 or M-2000. Nobody invests so much just for 36-72 planes. The whole deal is pretty much designed for a much bigger number. If you look at any major Indian defence contract, it follows a similar pattern. They take long time to order a product, but subsequent tranches are ordered without much fuss. For example Su-30, T-90, Mi-17V5 etc. I strongly believe Rafale will follow the same pattern. As soon as Modi comes back to power in 2019, defence deals will be fast tracked.
All these western propaganda pieces will not have any affect on Indian participation in FGFA, for years these so called western analysts have been tarnishing and bad-mouthing Russian PAKFA project and then since some time they have found a new agenda to write articles on PAKFA/FGFA: That India is not buying, not satisfied Blah blah blah.
While all these propaganda is going on, Russia have started testing the new Izdeliye [item] No. 30 engine for Block 2 project of PAKFA which will be used for FGFA too, these writers don't want India to produce FGFA instead they would like all the orders to be filled with decades old F16 and F/A-18. These parasites will not be satisfied with the upcoming 100 jets order of F16 too, they will try to get every other project cancelled, so that there is no competition and only F16 is produced in hundreds.
The article is correct in terms of the hurdles India faces with respect to the number of programs. But the govt is counting on one particular gambit for all projects to go ahead, that's growth. So the programs will only be postponed to when funds become available, not canceled.
But if one program has to be sacrificed, that should be the navy's carrier program. They can have one at a later date, after at least one air force program is signed. Immediate needs with proven aircraft should be met first.
As for the PAK FA, the biggest hurdle is the Russian economy. If the program is to go ahead, the Russians should be signing up a major production deal for it so that India is assured of a concrete partnership and not like Brahmos where the Russians don't have the money for it or the platforms to use it from.
There is also this little snippet about the Russian forces not going for the Su-57 in favour of the Su-35. That's flawed. The Russians have decided to go for the definitive version instead of wasting money on the first stage, which is a sensible decision. Considering their economic condition and their current war-like situation in Ukraine and Syria, it's obvious that any military would like to continue using stuff that they know will work for sure instead of dabbling in new untested stuff. This is true for all militaries, even the US. That's why even I said "Immediate needs with proven aircraft should be met first". The Russians want to find some comfort in numbers with 150-200 Su-30SM and 100-150 Su-35 before they go for the PAK FA.
Overall I am happy with this article except for this dumb shmuck who says, "but the $6.7 billion we would have to invest in the Su-57 would only pay for four prototypes".
We are paying $3.7B, not $6.7B. There is no 6.7, there has never been a 6.7. Numbers simply grow out of people's backsides. Another clown had come up with $7.4B. The actual number was $5.5B and reduced to $3.7B after the rubble fell. Who are these "aerospace experts"?
FGFA will be happening. The only way it won't happen is if there is a major political or economic upheaval, not otherwise.
India already has indigenous Tejas and Su30 projects. AMCA also has been designed and sanctioned. Why would anyone want India to have PAK-FA? What purpose will PAK-FA serve in addition to the 3 projects?
The stealth plane will lose its stealth if there are external stores. If there are no external stores, then a heavy PAK-FA will still be unable to carry much payload.
The stealth plane will lose its stealth if there are external stores. If there are no external stores, then a heavy PAK-FA will still be unable to carry much payload.
I dont understand why you have to talk of Rafale on Su-57 thread? There is Rafale thread for your discussion, please indulge there
As you are aware F-22 is in operation for more than decade and the next American 5th gen plane F-35 is there,. The chinese have their J-20 and J-31 flying.. India has dream AMCA. no prototype or anything, that means say at least 10 years for an operational plane. Now there is chance that within 5 years Pakistan could be using Chinese 5th Gen planes and most advantage that we have now goes to Pakistan.
What Su-57 brings is 5th gen plane, which has the ability to enter chinese or pakistani air space and strike deep within Rather you can think of it like Super Advance sukhoi which tilts the balance in Indias favour. The external stores are there when the plane does not need stealth characteristics, For example external fuel tank can be used to ferry the plane to say Maldives and back .. just to give an example.
Also what we can get is not only a 5th Gen plane but a better view of 5th Gen tech that we need to develop and super cede.
Su-57 carries more powerful engines with better fuel efficiency. and thus the heavy Su-57 will still be able to carry more stores by weight than Su-30 MKI and do so much efficiently.
What Su-57 brings is 5th gen plane, which has the ability to enter chinese or pakistani air space and strike deep within Rather you can think of it like Super Advance sukhoi which tilts the balance in Indias favour. The external stores are there when the plane does not need stealth characteristics, For example external fuel tank can be used to ferry the plane to say Maldives and back .. just to give an example.
Also what we can get is not only a 5th Gen plane but a better view of 5th Gen tech that we need to develop and super cede.
Su-57 carries more powerful engines with better fuel efficiency. and thus the heavy Su-57 will still be able to carry more stores by weight than Su-30 MKI and do so much efficiently.
Su57 uses Al41 engine which can be used in Su30 as an upgrade (super Sukhoi). India has a project which is in parallel to Tejas and several subsystems will be used in both Tejas and AMCA.
The idea that we will get 5th generation plane is flawed. If we are not able to manufacture that, then it is not useful in full scale war. Only limited skirmishes can use such imported planes. Most of the work is in software, processing and fusion of technology rather than mechanical manufacturing. So, merely getting an idea of 5th generation plane is not meaningful. The real idea is in software for which source codes are also needed. Unless, the codes are being accessed, PAK-FA doesn't make sense. It will only serve in further delaying projects
Russia’s defense ministry to sign contract for 12 Su-57 fighter jets
Military & DefenseFebruary 08, 6:46
The first two planes of this batch may come into service in 2019
KOMSOMOLSK-ON-AMUR, February 8. /TASS/. Russia’s defense ministry plans to sign a contract for a preproduction batch of fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Thursday.
"We are buying Su-57 jets for test combat use. First stage state trials are over," he told journalists. "This year, we will sign a contract for the first batch of 12 Su-57 fighter jets for the Armed Forces."
According to Borisov, the first two planes of this batch may come into service in 2019. He said that ten out of 12 previously manufactured jets are undergoing flight tests.
When asked about performance of the new engine for Su-57, he answered: "So far, it is difficult to say because there have had been only one flight. Everything seems to be all right. But you know, it is a series of trials. Many flights are to be performed. As a rule, such trials take two or three years," he said.
The Su-57 (PAK FA) performed its maiden flight in 2010. On December 5, it made the first flight with a new engine. Currently, the plane is equipped with the so-called stage-on engine 117C. The new engine has been given no name so far and is conventionally referred to as "stage-two engine." It was reported in August 2017 that Russia’s the PAK FA fifth-generation fighter jet had received the serial index of Su-57. The experimental design work on the most advanced fighter jet should be completed in 2019 and its deliveries to the troops should begin at that time.
Russia’s defense ministry to sign contract for 12 Su-57 fighter jets
Military & DefenseFebruary 08, 6:46
The first two planes of this batch may come into service in 2019
KOMSOMOLSK-ON-AMUR, February 8. /TASS/. Russia’s defense ministry plans to sign a contract for a preproduction batch of fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets, Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Thursday.
"We are buying Su-57 jets for test combat use. First stage state trials are over," he told journalists. "This year, we will sign a contract for the first batch of 12 Su-57 fighter jets for the Armed Forces."
According to Borisov, the first two planes of this batch may come into service in 2019. He said that ten out of 12 previously manufactured jets are undergoing flight tests.
When asked about performance of the new engine for Su-57, he answered: "So far, it is difficult to say because there have had been only one flight. Everything seems to be all right. But you know, it is a series of trials. Many flights are to be performed. As a rule, such trials take two or three years," he said.
The Su-57 (PAK FA) performed its maiden flight in 2010. On December 5, it made the first flight with a new engine. Currently, the plane is equipped with the so-called stage-on engine 117C. The new engine has been given no name so far and is conventionally referred to as "stage-two engine." It was reported in August 2017 that Russia’s the PAK FA fifth-generation fighter jet had received the serial index of Su-57. The experimental design work on the most advanced fighter jet should be completed in 2019 and its deliveries to the troops should begin at that time.
Russia’s defense ministry to sign contract for 12 Su-57 fighter jets
The US believes Russia's Su-57 and PAK-DA stealth planes will be nuclear strike aircraft
MILITARY & DEFENSE
The US believes Russia's Su-57 and PAK-DA stealth planes will be nuclear strike aircraft
Associated PressPutin walking away from the Su-57 after it made its maiden flight in 2010.
The Trump administration believes Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter and Tupolev PAK-DA stealth bomber will be developmental nuclear strike aircrafts.
The administration listed the two aircrafts as developmental nuclear strike aircrafts in its Nuclear Posture Review, a 100-page report released last week laying out the US' nuclear policies.
The report took a harsh stance against Russia, saying that it "will pose insurmountable difficulties to any Russian strategy of aggression against the United States, its allies, or partners and ensure the credible prospect of unacceptably dire costs to the Russian leadership if it were to choose aggression."
The Su-57 first flew in 2010, but has yet to be mass produced.
Moscow announced on Wednesday that it would purchase about a dozen Su-57s this year, and receive two of those in 2019, according to TASS.
Graphic in the Nuclear Posture Review detailing nuclear strike delivery systems.
"We are taking the Su-57 for experimental and combat operation, and the state tests for the first stage are over," Russia's Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov told reporters on Wednesday, according to RIA Novosti.
The first batch of 12 will only be equipped with Saturn AL-41F1 engines- the same engines on the Su-35 - and not the new Izdelie-30 engines, which have only recently begun testing.
Russia's newly upgraded long-range bomber, the Tu-160M2, first flew last month, but the PAK-DA stealth bomber has yet to be built.
As such, Russia's main nuclear strike aircraft is currently the Su-34 Fullback, according to The National Interest.
"[Russia] has nuclear bombs for tactical aircraft and air launched tactical nuclear missiles as well. And there are ALCMs [air-launched cruise missiles] under development that will be used by tactical aircraft," Vasily Kashin, a fellow at Moscow's Higher School of Economics, told The National Interest.
"But I do not remember Su-57 being specifically mentioned," Kashin said, adding that it's possible that X-50 cruise missiles could fit into the Su-57's weapons bays. Russia, he said, has not confirmed anything.
TU-160M2
The status of the PAK-DA is even more up in the air.
Assuming Moscow builds the PAK-DA, it won't enter Russian service until the 2030s at the earliest, The National Interest reported.
The PAK-DA will probably be able to drop nuclear gravity bombs, according to The National Interest's David Majumdar. The aircraft will likely be primarly used as a strategic missile carrier - much like the upgraded Tu-160M2.
The Pentagon did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.
The US believes Russia's Su-57 and PAK-DA stealth planes will be nuclear strike aircraft
- Daniel Brown
- Feb 8, 2018, 5:05 PM ET
MILITARY & DEFENSE
The US believes Russia's Su-57 and PAK-DA stealth planes will be nuclear strike aircraft
- Daniel Brown
- Feb 8, 2018, 5:05 PM ET
- The Trump administration listed Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter and Tupolev PAK-DA stealth bomber as developmental nuclear strike aircrafts in its Nuclear Posture Review.
- The Su-57 has yet to be mass produced, and the PAK-DA has not even been built yet.
- The two stealth planes could be nuclear aircrafts, but not anytime soon.
The Trump administration believes Russia's Su-57 stealth fighter and Tupolev PAK-DA stealth bomber will be developmental nuclear strike aircrafts.
The administration listed the two aircrafts as developmental nuclear strike aircrafts in its Nuclear Posture Review, a 100-page report released last week laying out the US' nuclear policies.
The report took a harsh stance against Russia, saying that it "will pose insurmountable difficulties to any Russian strategy of aggression against the United States, its allies, or partners and ensure the credible prospect of unacceptably dire costs to the Russian leadership if it were to choose aggression."
The Su-57 first flew in 2010, but has yet to be mass produced.
Moscow announced on Wednesday that it would purchase about a dozen Su-57s this year, and receive two of those in 2019, according to TASS.
Graphic in the Nuclear Posture Review detailing nuclear strike delivery systems.
"We are taking the Su-57 for experimental and combat operation, and the state tests for the first stage are over," Russia's Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov told reporters on Wednesday, according to RIA Novosti.
The first batch of 12 will only be equipped with Saturn AL-41F1 engines- the same engines on the Su-35 - and not the new Izdelie-30 engines, which have only recently begun testing.
Russia's newly upgraded long-range bomber, the Tu-160M2, first flew last month, but the PAK-DA stealth bomber has yet to be built.
As such, Russia's main nuclear strike aircraft is currently the Su-34 Fullback, according to The National Interest.
"[Russia] has nuclear bombs for tactical aircraft and air launched tactical nuclear missiles as well. And there are ALCMs [air-launched cruise missiles] under development that will be used by tactical aircraft," Vasily Kashin, a fellow at Moscow's Higher School of Economics, told The National Interest.
"But I do not remember Su-57 being specifically mentioned," Kashin said, adding that it's possible that X-50 cruise missiles could fit into the Su-57's weapons bays. Russia, he said, has not confirmed anything.
TU-160M2
The status of the PAK-DA is even more up in the air.
Assuming Moscow builds the PAK-DA, it won't enter Russian service until the 2030s at the earliest, The National Interest reported.
The PAK-DA will probably be able to drop nuclear gravity bombs, according to The National Interest's David Majumdar. The aircraft will likely be primarly used as a strategic missile carrier - much like the upgraded Tu-160M2.
The Pentagon did not immediately respond to Business Insider's request for comment.
The US believes Russia's Su-57 and PAK-DA stealth planes will be nuclear strike aircraft
@vstol Jockey @Picdelamirand-oil @Hellfire
The Russians have apparently deployed PAK FAs in Syria.
Alleged PHOTO, VIDEO of Russian Pak-Fa Fifth Gen Jet Released on Twitter
The Russians have apparently deployed PAK FAs in Syria.
Alleged PHOTO, VIDEO of Russian Pak-Fa Fifth Gen Jet Released on Twitter
Are they that desperate? What's the point in deploying prototypes in war zone??
Are these prototype or SP's. Also, they might have done to actually check that the capabilities of these planes.
I don't think they have started serial production. Till date they have 10 prototypes.