Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

I didn't said 1000 hours a year. That's not possible. Usually NATO does 150-180 hours in a year, Russians do 120-130 hours a year, our Bisons do 100 hours a year, MKIs upwards of 200 hours a year.

Hours are important, as it involves important agreements regarding spares and support contracts with the OEM. You cannot fly more than the given number of hours left , without giving up support of the OEM.

If I say that your 13 ADF and 31 original AM/BM have little over 1000 hours left in their engines, it means that for operations extending upto 15-20 years since completion of MLU , it's not possible that they fly more than 60-70 hours a year.

On the RD93. It's derived from the RD33 series 3 engines actually. Unlike claimed to be derived from RD33MK which has Full Digital Authority Controls. And the claimed life of RD33 series 3 is 2000 hours according to OEM. But in actual service they do not last longer than 600-700 hours.

You may even ask your biradars in Malaysia who gave up Mig29 operations.

Some wrong info there.

RD-93 was derived from the basic RD-33, the same smoky engines that nobody likes. The life of the RD-93 is 2200 hours. It requires an overhaul after 800 hours.

The RD-33 Series 3 and RD-33MK had their service lives increased to 4000 hours with overhauls at 1000-hour intervals. Significantly less smoke.

So when you say it doesn't last 600-700 hours, it's correct, but you are talking about the overhaul interval, not service life.
 
Some wrong info there.

RD-93 was derived from the basic RD-33, the same smoky engines that nobody likes. The life of the RD-93 is 2200 hours. It requires an overhaul after 800 hours.

The RD-33 Series 3 and RD-33MK had their service lives increased to 4000 hours with overhauls at 1000-hour intervals. Significantly less smoke.

So when you say it doesn't last 600-700 hours, it's correct, but you are talking about the overhaul interval, not service life.
Didn't we had a report which criticised the engine specifically saying that availability of planes were being affected because they needed to replace their engines just after 500-600 hours of flying with respect to Mig29s.

Therefore I assumed that it referred to removing the old engine and adding new ones.

Still it has very poor serviceability compared to even older gen 404s.

And without ordering any extra engines, how can they correctly claim that they actually fly the aircrafts 1000s of hours? Especially when the engines weren't overhauled?

We have had older RD33 for quite some time, @vstol Jockey did they ever came upto the Russian claims of 2200 hours of service?
 
Didn't we had a report which criticised the engine specifically saying that availability of planes were being affected because they needed to replace their engines just after 500-600 hours of flying with respect to Mig29s.

That referred to the main engine being sent for overhaul earlier than scheduled and the Mig-29 getting a spare engine just to keep it flying. When one loses 200-250 hours from a schedule, then that's going to create problems in scheduling maintenance since the airframe is not down for maintenance as well, so a spare has to be used and that creates more problems in scheduling.

Yes, the engine is crap. But that's what you get for $1M.

And without ordering any extra engines, how can they correctly claim that they actually fly the aircrafts 1000s of hours?

It's Pakistan. They lie about everything. So why break your head over it? Anyway, it's not such a big issue flying a lot in the first 1200 hours before the JF-17's overhaul. Everything is brand new. It's what happens after the first overhaul that counts.
 
You don't even fly your F16s that much actually. The ADF ones when received by Jordan already had their 75% lifetime used up, which then received the overhaul and again before being transferred to Pakistan had again used up almost all of its flight hours. When you guys received it, it would be hardly having 500 hours more without the MLU.

Just for comparison even the Bisons in our fleet fly 120-150 hours a year, MKIs flying upto 180-200 hours a years. By that standards either you guys don't fly your F16s ADF or you have completed the flying hours and in gross level of incompetence keep flying after the OEM guarantees are over putting the pilots and ground crews at a danger. So much for your competence.

Coming to 31 of the original F16 AM/BM. They did receive the MLU extending a further 2000 hours of service life. But the engines weren't changed and had the same 6000 hours life which was already 75-80% used before going into the MLU. This again means either you don't fly as much or you fly expired engines in a show of great competence.

Only the 14 embargoed and 18 newer F16s have lives which can be used considerably.

Coming to your JF17 fleet, those smokey engines have a life of not more than 500-600 hours , then how come your Airforce officers claim that JF17s of block 1 have flown 1000+ hours? Because you guys have recieved no extra RD93s as of today , it only means that the officers of a competent airforce is not telling the truth simply.

Coming back to 27th February, again we are an open democracy where even deaths of nuclear research personal cannot be hidden because of relatively more free and widespread media. That's where your claim of Su30MKI going down goes down the drain. But unlike India, you guys suppressed all press , even then videos came out of doosra banda , didn't it?

A single Bison without even 8222 spj went in that day and shot down your AWACS backed F16BM.

Shows all the competence of your Airforce.
You still don't know PAF?
The F-6 Farmer were built by the Chinese as a low cost disposable plane with only 500 hrs of airframe life.
Pakistan flew it from 1965 to 2002.
Even built conformal fuel tanks for the ship.
We are quite good at extending fighter jet life.
 
You don't even fly your F16s that much actually. The ADF ones when received by Jordan already had their 75% lifetime used up, which then received the overhaul and again before being transferred to Pakistan had again used up almost all of its flight hours. When you guys received it, it would be hardly having 500 hours more without the MLU.

Just for comparison even the Bisons in our fleet fly 120-150 hours a year, MKIs flying upto 180-200 hours a years. By that standards either you guys don't fly your F16s ADF or you have completed the flying hours and in gross level of incompetence keep flying after the OEM guarantees are over putting the pilots and ground crews at a danger. So much for your competence.

Coming to 31 of the original F16 AM/BM. They did receive the MLU extending a further 2000 hours of service life. But the engines weren't changed and had the same 6000 hours life which was already 75-80% used before going into the MLU. This again means either you don't fly as much or you fly expired engines in a show of great competence.

Only the 14 embargoed and 18 newer F16s have lives which can be used considerably.

Coming to your JF17 fleet, those smokey engines have a life of not more than 500-600 hours , then how come your Airforce officers claim that JF17s of block 1 have flown 1000+ hours? Because you guys have recieved no extra RD93s as of today , it only means that the officers of a competent airforce is not telling the truth simply.

Coming back to 27th February, again we are an open democracy where even deaths of nuclear research personal cannot be hidden because of relatively more free and widespread media. That's where your claim of Su30MKI going down goes down the drain. But unlike India, you guys suppressed all press , even then videos came out of doosra banda , didn't it?

A single Bison without even 8222 spj went in that day and shot down your AWACS backed F16BM.

Shows all the competence of your Airforce.
Sure..our pilots don't fly. That's why they get hired for pilot training.

 
Jf-17 being tested with a larger nose cone carrying an AESA radar.
Pictures are from 2017.

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Sure..our pilots don't fly. That's why they get hired for pilot training.

Only Pakistan allows its armed forces as mercenaries so its obvious rich nations will hire you
 
A random zoom camera shot of a Thunder.
Picture shows the JF-17 on a usual combat air patrol with two WVR PL-5 , and two BVR SD-10.
The SD-10 was having some issues with a low captive-carry time.
For that reason it wasn't been flown much with the thunders.
But recently it has been observed that most of the JF-17 CAP missions are now with the SD-10.
This shows that PAF has now attained the capability of servicing the missile affordably and in-house.
And/or the missile has been certified
Polish_20200719_062248401.jpg
and qualified for longer than before captive-carry hours.