Secondly, the greatest significance of JF17 to Pakistan’s aviation industry is that it has participated in the development of a fighter aircraft from beginning to end, knowing what design is needed to realize some functions, how long it will take, and how much money to develop. For Pakistan, develop a fighter jet. A fifth-generation aircraft like the F22 is impossible. For Pakistan now, it is feasible to learn from South Korea and use existing mature technology to develop a light fifth-generation aircraft similar to the KF21. This is also in line with Pakistan’s geographic environment and military. demand
Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
I doubt if even that is possible.
And I don't think anything other than Chinese will be possible/ affordable for them too.
Post Covid Chinese had pulled down the entire worlds economy. Let alone Pakistan which were in shambles even before covid.
First, China’s economy will not be greatly affected, and the impact on Pakistan’s military assistance will be reduced. Second, Pakistan may need to purchase EJ200 engines from the United Kingdom, and the rest can use the mature technology of J20, and the development costs will not be too high. WS19 Will mature around 2025,
Neither Europe nor is the US going to sell Pakistan any jet engines . Russia would but not any sophisticated state of the art engine. Pakistan's only hope is China.
Pakistan is just capable of doing paint job that's it heck they don't even have transonic wind tunnel.
Let’s take a look at the engines available in Pakistan, China WS15, WS19,
Russian products 30,
With the improvement of European autonomy, Pakistan may also obtain M88-2, EJ200
The economies of East Asia and Vietnam have recovered quickly, thanks to responsible governments and effective social management systems
Pakistan’s next-generation fighter jets can continue the JF17 model, Pakistan proposes performance indicators, Chinese research and development, and China and Pakistan joint manufacturing
If the Pakistanis were so confident with Chinese engines , Block 3 would see it equipped with Chinese engines. If I'm not mistaken , the Chinese also offered the Pakistanis the same. The very fact that it hasn't happened should tell you a lot .
India is in a stage of advanced talks with both Safran & RR for collaboration in manufacturing of jet engines for our own use. Make out of it what you will.
The performance of ws13 is not up to the level of RD93ma, and it is unwise to add a type of engine maintenance facility for 50 fighter jets. Pakistan already has the overhaul capability of RD93.
There are also many technical exchanges between China and France. Dassault of France helped design the fly-by-wire flight control of the J10, and Safran helped China design the engine of the Z15 helicopter.
The actual reason is when we designed both the J-10 and LCA, BVR missiles didn't exist. Nor did we anticipate that we will take so long to develop our aircraft, to the point where new technologies became available to us.
Also, unlike in India, while we were stuck with a smaller plane, the concept of multirole aircraft didn't exist in China at the time. As for LCA, we never planned to make it multirole. So there was no need for an additional hardpoint on each wing for bombs. The basic 4 HP loadout was enough for an air defence aircraft at the time. Because 2 of those points can be freed for dumb bombs or tactical missiles when necessary. It was only in the 90s for the West and the post 2000s for India and China that the 2 additional hardpoints for BVR missiles and multirole capability became important. Which is why we now have J-16 and LCA Mk2.
When did those technical exchanges happen? Do you foresee such technical exchanges with the west in future ?
Besides this discussion was about Pakistan sourcing a jet engine for either their existing JF-17 or for some proverbial 5th Generation FA from the west - both of which are pies in the skies .
The performance of the WS-13 is what prompted the Pakistanis to persist with the RD-93. Were it upto the mark , I don't think Pakistan would've hesitated to go in for it . This isn't merely 50 engines we're discussing. In due course , the MLU's would've seen more WS-13 in JF-17 had it's performance been equal or better to the RD-93.
Contrary to what many people think, Pakistan has actually avoided all military equipment from China. Moreover, the WS13 has not undergone a large number of flights. No one knows how reliable it is.
What is the West? The United States, the United Kingdom, and Europe. In the future, Europe will pursue an independent policy toward China. The corresponding military exchanges will continue. The main contradiction between China and Europe is ideology. Europe needs the Chinese market. For example, Volkswagen's sales in China accounted for 40% of its total sales
True. But today Pakistan doesn't have a choice. Hence most if not all their requirements are sourced from either China or Turkey with a few from Sweden , Italy , RSA , Brazil , etc.
Who's seen the future ! We go by past precedents. Since the Tiananmen square massacre , the West had imposed sanctions of defence related equipments & such collaborations with China which still stands.
Moreover , the EU had announced that they had reached an agreement with the Chinese on a successful investment pact in China
Then this happened :
EU parliament ‘freezes’ China trade deal over sanctions
Tit-for-tat sanctions over Beijing’s treatment of Uyghurs puts halt on investment agreement
Pls don't conflate commercial transactions like Volkswagen with defence related ones.
The J10C has upgraded its mounting capabilities. China’s F-10 has re-developed its technical indicators, adding BVR capabilities and pulse Doppler radar. The role of the F-10 in the Chinese Air Force is to serve as a frontline aviation force and shallow depth ground attack aircraft, and emergency interception. Enemy bombers penetrating the air defense area, so the J-10 is more like mig29 than F16
It is normal that Europe will repeatedly switch between China and the United States in order to seek the best interests.Who's seen the future ! We go by past precedents. Since the Tiananmen square massacre , the West had imposed sanctions of defence related equipments & such collaborations with China which still stands.
Moreover , the EU had announced that they had reached an agreement with the Chinese on a successful investment pact in China
Then this happened :
EU parliament ‘freezes’ China trade deal over sanctions
Tit-for-tat sanctions over Beijing’s treatment of Uyghurs puts halt on investment agreementwww.theguardian.com
Pls don't conflate commercial transactions like Volkswagen with defence related ones.
The priorities became different. The J-10C, F-16A/B and Mig-29S have been developed for pretty much the same reasons, even LCA Mk1. It's only the later blocks of the F-16 with higher thrust engines and larger MTOWs that became multirole. Also the Mig-29M/35 and LCA Mk2. China's priorities with the J-10 are simply different.
At this time, it appears the J-20 will be China's first multriole aircraft.