That reply was in a different context altogether
In reality Su 30 would pounce on a JF 17
Once it has evaded its BVR that is assuming
That JF 17 gets a lock on the Su 30 in the first place
Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions
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That reply was in a different context altogether
In reality Su 30 would pounce on a JF 17
Once it has evaded its BVR that is assuming
That JF 17 gets a lock on the Su 30 in the first place
When the weapon systems being carried are similar , its the Avionics , the Radars, Jammers , the loiter time , the Flight ceiling
Which makes all the Difference
Sukhois and other Twin Engined Fighters
Like F 15 , Rafale , all have a purpose behind them
As explained, all that only makes a difference in a 1 on 1 situation and of course any of them will be superior to JF 17, but when combined with force multipliers like AWACS, a lot of those advantages are gone and suddenly a small low end fighter, can be a threat to a large high end fighter (IAF Mig 21 + Su 30 vs USAF F15).
They basically took our tactics, to the next level, by adding superior AWACS support to it, to cover for a "smaller" radar (according to recent reports the AESA could be larger than Uttam and similar in size to RBE 2 in Rafale), just as the addition of IFR capability, counters the shortfall of limited endurance and range.
For PAF JF17 is a game changer, while for Myanmar or Nigeria, it just will be a modern Mig 21 type of fighter.
You expect the JF 17s to escort the AWACS
PAF AWACS will be protected by F 16
So you would use a fighter that can't be linked to the Chinese origin AWACS and is incompatible with the Russian origin tankers?
The Chinese AESA is a long way away from
Full Operational Capability
What JF 17 does is increase the numbers
Of BVR capable planes
They want to prove that PAF can survive for
Five days
But IAF has proved 5000 sorties in 3 days against Pak alone , which can go up even further in a real war
Can JF 17 do 3 sorties a day
Right now they manage 100 hours a year
So you would use a fighter that can't be linked to the Chinese origin AWACS and is incompatible with the Russian origin tankers?
So you are saying that F 16 and AWACS can't talk to each other
What about The Eeriyes ( Swedish )
Yeah, heard that about carriers, stealth fighters, stealth drones, or supersonic missiles before.
Not really, it adds capabilities, PAF couldn't get with the F16s.
- combined tactics with force multiplers
- stand off strike capability
- SEAD capability
- long range maritime attack capability
- customized EW, avionics, or weapons
- industrial know how and experience
- financial benefits through exports
Back in my PDF days, I remember that they tried to link it through a ground station, later I read some articles about their own data link developments =>
“Link-17” – Pakistan’s homegrown data-link system
Haven't followed it after that, but I don't think the US will give approval for any customizations, especially with Chinese systems.
I am not sure how to respond to that but here goes nothing.So after 45 minutes of burning fuel in the sky
And Wasting Two BVRAAMs the JF 17 will
Head back to its base
And you know that a fighter is most vulnerable when it is taking off OR when it is Going back
The Sukhois can chase them and Fire a missile in its Behind
I don't know what scenarios you are imagining or how BVRAAM's came into picture or 45 mins of flight is remotely related to what I wrote.
If you want to believe that enemy platform will be defeated in cakewalk, that is your prerogative.
Exercises are for learning, failures is exercises are to beneficial to exploit the most out of your system. just the fact that PAF has access to chinese flankers for dact is a huge advantage for them. Underestimating them is utterly stupid.
On a different note, not directed at your post
I don't want this forum to become baseless crap slinging portal like pdf has become when anything remotely related to IAF comes about. I don't see anything wrong with the FC20 platform, it's a cost effective platform with good growth potential and works great for Airforces working on a limited budget. If there is genuine critique of FC20 as a system, that is welcome.
We should thank our " Gods" that PAF is stuck up with JF 17 , it is the least capable modern aircraft today
Because their earlier plan was to have
150 F 16s , but their love for extremism
Didn't allow it to happen
Yeah, heard that about carriers, stealth fighters, stealth drones, or supersonic missiles before.
Not really, it adds capabilities, PAF couldn't get with the F16s.
- combined tactics with force multiplers
- stand off strike capability
- SEAD capability
- long range maritime attack capability
- customized EW, avionics, or weapons
- industrial know how and experience
- financial benefits through exports
JF 17 can carry all these stand off weaponry but can it Fight its way out to safety
After loading it with all Bombs and Air to Surface Missiles
And given its one single fuel guzzling engine RD 93
It would not be able to survive on its own
When challenged by a MiG 29 or Mirage 2000
It will need another JF 17 to escort it
When a JF 17 is intercepted, it will fire its
BVR missiles and Run away
On the other hand it is IAF , that is underestimated by Indians
IAF has done Three Exercises for a Two Front war
Live wire in 2013 , Live wire 2015 , Gagan Shakti 2018
I have not heard any IAF officer being worried about PAF for more than 10 years now
By the way this is what was said by Americans when they were giving F 16 to Pak in 2010
F-16’s from US will only help Pak lose war against India ‘a little slower’: US officials - Thaindian News
Here's my armchair Air MArshall view. i think we need to see the scenario in a slightly larger context. a 1-1 engagement between a thunder and an MKI, while not ruled out, is highly unlikely. IAF in the first wave will likely target the Pakistani AWACS through long range BVR salvos fired from the MKIs. The MKIs will also be used to provide air cover to Jags on SEAD missions against high value targets. remember, the Jags are now AESA equipped and may be able to pick off incoming thunders or f-16s fairly early and vector the MKIs towards them for a BVR kill. The m2Ks will be most likely in the forefront to draw out the f-16s. Any f-16s or thunders that cross the border will be met by mig 29s and perhaps the LCAs(if they are combat certified by then).
The way I see it, the MKIs will be the BVR warriors and given their vastly superior radar, will pick out and engage the PAF birds far earlier than the other way round. If an MKI gets into the merge with a thunder, the odds are heavily in favour of the MKI. If it gets into the merge with a block 52, then the odds even out, or perhaps even slightly favour the f16.
The way I see it, the MKIs will be the BVR warriors and given their vastly superior radar, will pick out and engage the PAF birds far earlier than the other way round. If an MKI gets into the merge with a thunder, the odds are heavily in favour of the MKI. If it gets into the merge with a block 52, then the odds even out, or perhaps even slightly favour the f16.
The operations against PAF will depend on the Sustained Surge Matrix to completely put them on the Defensive
If they cannot match the Sortie Generation Rate of IAF , they would be grounded on their
Bases , where they can be targetted along with their Base Infrastructure
China won't sell FC-31 when its progressing well, CAC sold FC-1 b'cuz there were no domestic orders. As far i can guess they are working project AZM with the Chinese. Here's the interesting pic
Its finally revealed that JF-20 is the 5th gen aircraft for PAF.
@Sancho What do you think, LKF601E AESAR is only for Myanmar's JF-17/FC-1?
The JF17.6 has an enclosed weapons pod - similar to what we saw on the super honet proposal to the IAF
Is this just a stealthy JF-17/FC-1? If so, how does Pakistan benefit from a short range stealth interceptor instead of just more AA systems perhaps supplemented by low observable cruise missiles for SEAD?