Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions
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I'm just connecting the dots here from what i heard for past year. In 2016, China start studying semi-stealth features of JF-17 which was dubbed as JF-17 block-IV by netizens. Meanwhile FC-31 progressed well than expectations. Then in 2017, PAF asked for single engine 5th gen. aircraft based on JF-17, cuz FC-31 will be too costly, which is basically project AZM i believe. It seems more cheaper & easier option for PAC to shift from JF-17 to JF-20.
Chinese sources are usually more reliable than pak's, what chinese are saying on PDF:
Pakistani Ministry of Planning and Development officials confirmed that the project will expand China-Pakistan cooperation on JF-17 fighters. This is likely to indicate that Pakistan has chosen chengdu as a partner in the AZM project. The new generation of stealth fighters will be the legendary JF-17 stealth version, not Shenyang FC-31.
The network accidentally exposed the model of three single-head stealth fighters, one of which was named JF-17.6, one could not see the sideboard number of the cockpit, and the last one was JF-20. From the appearance, the JF-17.6 and the unnamed models belong to the direct stealth improvement of the JF-17 fighter, retaining the basic aerodynamic layout of the JF-17, such as the DSI without the boundary layer air inlet, Gothic The pointed arch has a large side strip, but the side of the front fuselage adds a hidden ridgeline, and the rear fuselage is changed from a single vertical tail to a cambered double tail. JF-17.6 uses a belly-mounted semi-buried bomb and a stealth conformal weapon pod on the weapon mount. The unnamed model has a new built-in bomb bay on the belly, which is obviously more perfect in stealth design. However, it will adversely affect the flight of the aircraft due to the occupation of the internal oil space.
The JF-20's body shape has been completely redesigned, not only the nose radome is sharper, the cockpit cover is more integrated into the front fuselage, the transition between the lower surface of the fuselage and the wing is smoother, and JF-17 is also eliminated. The pointed arch is large. Like the unrecognized model, the JF-20 has a large bomb bay on the belly. This machine is obviously the best high-end solution in stealth performance of the three schemes. Of course, this means that the development cost is the highest. The reason why the Pakistan Air Force did not focus on the spot-based FC-31, and finally chose to fly to develop a single-engine stealth fighter based on JF-17. The main reason is the high procurement and maintenance cost of the dual-engine fighter.
Chinese are saying similar things so i believe its truth.
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The decision making process is solid considering the financial limitations of Pakistan and the many other nations, with poor Western relations, who may desire such an aircraft. It shares a lot of commonality with the JF-17 so will be easier to maintain, I understand that, but I still wonder what role a stealthy light aircraft has? It doesn't seem like it will have the range or ability to carry a lot of ordinance. Furthermore the nations purchasing these are likely doing so with an economic focus in mind, so they likely won't be acquiring these planes in bulk. If its strictly for defense wouldn't AA systems be more effective force multipliers, cheaper to purchase & operate? It seems like a 5th gen aircraft for the sake of having a 5th gen aircraft...
My sources told me that it's not the project AZM and the FC-31 is still on the table. A stealthy version of JF-17 was discussed with the Chinese in 2016 and resulted in several models. It's will provide PAF a transition and integration platform to a 5th gen fighter which won't be inducted before 2024. The JF-17.6 is to be integrated with a lot of technology from the FC-31 and a Chinese engine. Unit cost may not exceed $60 million so I am guessing it will have RAM coating and composite materials more than stealthy alloys.
The project is still in experimental phase.
The project is still in experimental phase.
All these are just wind tunnel models. Not necessary the actual single engine fifth gen design.
seems like they beat vstol jockey ' s single engine stealth platform in timeline atleast at the wind tunnel model stage.
If you look at the model properly, you will find some resemblance to my LSA model. this is what these chinese do. Steal and copy from where ever possible. but this surely wont have the kind of internal weapon load which SE LSA could.
You know who looks stupid and arrogant again?? If you were smart you would keep all your ideas to yourself, not boast it in online platforms, go and build it, and bring it at a time which would have given the country the advantage of surprise additions. The Chinese are stealing to protect their country. That is a noble act.
Why is every talented one in the country so arrogant and stupid. I wish I had your talent I ould have created 10 fighters for the country by now.
Pakistani sources are not reliable, they usually do propaganda rather than telling the truth and the chinese always report first about any major development. Project AZM also includes drones i think and there was a news that PAC may assemble wing loong too. So there maybe some truth behind it.
Thats why i posted just pics first cuz i wasn't sure regarding design/development. It is more believable that China might be working on JF-20 than selling SAC FC-31/J-35 to PAF. Well anyway i will wait for more info.
His idea developed in the forum..
I guess he hasn't made everything public ..
He s been on radio silence since 6 months.
Waiting for aero India 2019 to know all the details...
Even then u should be knowing India is not a country that always appreciate s merit ..
It's hell lot difficult to come on top..
Add to that cartels that deny any help and shadow work to distract ..
U r concern s are appreciated.
However for anyone motivation is a biggest factor .. both positive & negative.
Indeed there's a lot of false news and propaganda because we like to keep full secrecy untill the weapon is ready to be tested so people speculate a lot.
I usually ignore the rumors unless I hear them from my own sources (the establishment).
Stealthy versions of the JF-17 do exist on drawing table and the PAF has even presented an ASR for some of them but the priority lies with the AZM project based on the FC-31. So it's very much on the table.
Apparently the news is fake and the source is provided below. Actually, These are models made by a military enthusiast named “yes413” before the 2016 air show.
He has made four models to participate in the party, JF17.6 and JF20 are two of them.
Chengfei exposed two new stealth fighter programs or the most deadly opponent of Chengmei F35
October 12, 11:48attention
While equipped with the 歼-20, a heavy-duty fifth-generation stealth fighter, the debate about the Chinese Air Force’s need for a “medium-sized fifth-generation fighter” (formerly known as the S4) or a more cost-effective “small five” has been ongoing, FC -31 "鹘鹰" as the "Sino-Five" ready-made shelf products, let the military fans bother and the opposite side, but as the overall research and development unit of the 歼-20, the aviation industry Chengdu has taken a different approach and intends to sell invisible to Pakistan. "Jilong", this also provides a new direction for the Chinese Air Force's new cheap version of the fifth-generation machine.
Photo: 歼-20 is a heavy-duty fifth-generation machine
23 sheetsHow to objectively evaluate the "heart" road of 歼20A few days ago, some netizens released models that were suspected of invisible "枭龙". Surprisingly, they actually have two configurations. One of the configurations was previously disclosed, code-named JF20, which is a five-generation machine with a normal layout, single-shot, double-tailed, fully invisible design, with an internal bomb bay, but from the earlier disclosed JF20 model. Look, its bomb bay should only accommodate two medium-range air-to-air missiles of the 霹雳-12 or 霹雳-15 level for air combat in a fully invisible configuration.
Photo: JF17.6 (near) and JF20 (far), thanks to the original author
At the same time, another model, model JF17.6, was first revealed, using a semi-invisible design. The nose is the same as the JF20, but the overall invisible shape is not as aggressive as the JF20. In particular, it has no internal bombardment under the abdomen, but an invisiblely designed conformal weapon bag. The invisible improvement of the Boeing F/A-18E/F "Super Hornet" in the United States is also reflected in a less technically risky solution.
Image: JF20 model
Generally speaking, the internal space of the fighter is limited. The fifth-generation machine is more difficult to control the weight and shape than the human body. It is simply a dojo in the snail shell. The F-22, 歼-20, and Su-57 are heavy-duty five-generation aircrafts with large design margins. They can have main and side bombs and at the same time guarantee internal oil. The F-35 is called "Middle Five", but In order to guarantee the placement of 2000-pound precision guided bombs and JSM air-to-ground missiles, it is extremely fat. The F-35A has a maximum takeoff weight of 31 tons and a maximum flight speed of Mach 1.6.
Image: Superbug with a stealth weapon bag
The United States' aero-engine technology is the only one in the world. The F-35 adopts the 18-ton after-load F-135 advanced push ratio 10 first-class turbofan engine, achieving the feat of the single-issue "middle five". The type is difficult. FC-31 can only use two 8 ton turbofans 13E to “make it together”, and the maximum takeoff weight has reached 26 tons. Due to the dual-engine design, the cost is even more questioned. Level.
Photo: In order to protect the large bomb bay, F-35 super fat, need a large thrust turbofan "blessing"
The two programs of Chengdu are tailor-made for the Pakistan Air Force from the codename beginning with "JF", but they do the "subtraction" in the opposite direction.
Photo: The previously disclosed invisible "Zhenlong" part, the nose was completely redesigned.
Both JF17.6 and JF20 have invisible modification of key parts, such as the use of active phased array radar (which is easily intercepted by the enemy when the machine is swept) and the cockpit cover is invisible, while the JF20 does not pursue the large airspace precision weapon built-in. It only needs to be built with 2 medium-range air-to-air missiles. The body is much narrower than “fertilizer”. It can continue to use a single turbofan 13 later modified push-type or more advanced turbofan 19, after all, the vortex on the 歼-20 Fan 15 is still far from being able to use, and JF17 uses a more simplified stealth weapon bag to solve this problem.
Picture: FC-31 is approved for price/performance, and it is too overlapping with 歼-20
The Pakistani Air Force has previously disclosed that it wants to tailor the fifth-generation fighter (FGF) project. It does not have the temptation of the ready-made "Eagle" in Shenyang. Obviously, it is still relatively cheaper to steal the "Jilong" and "Suiying". Which is more suitable, but compared to the "鹘鹰", the invisible "枭龙" can perfectly connect to the "枭龙" Block3, but its internal oil is definitely less, this is only suitable for small countries like Pakistan.
Photo: Dragon Fighter
But for a big country like China, this kind of extreme subtraction to develop the "Little Five" may not meet the needs of the Air Force's full airspace and offshore operations.
However, the invisible "Zhenlong" of Chengdu has provided an idea for the future "Middle Five" or "Little Five". In order to deal with the large number of F-35s that are mainly targeted at ground attack, "Sin 5" can be used cheaper. The single-engine design highlights the air-supply capability and minimizes the need to shun the demand for large thrust turbofans. For example, the F-102 "Triangle Sword"/F-106 "Triangle Javelin" used by the US Air Force in the past was a single-engine delta wing interception. Machines, both with internal bomb bays, are worth learning.
Picture: The bomb bay is not difficult, the F-106 has
If such a cheap "Middle Five" occurs, the maximum takeoff weight is controlled at around 20 tons. The use of a modified turbofan-10 "Taihang" engine can guarantee a higher air combat thrust-to-weight ratio. For the F-35, This will be a deadly opponent. This kind of "S5" will be made into the price of cabbage, replacing the current 歼-10, producing thousands of cheap supplements for 歼-20, deployed in various air force bases across the country, F- 35 will surely fall into the trap of cheap stealth fighters. (Author's signature: Wulong Defense Review)
For the full contents of "Sheathing", please pay attention to Sina military official WeChat preemptive view (see WeChat public number: sinamilnews for details), "Slinging" is a full start on Sina Weiwei official WeChat every day.
成飞曝光两款新隐身战机方案 或成美F35最致命对手
No officially it's not confirmed by PAF or the MoD. All we have is unconfirmed news from reliable sources.