Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

Ginvincible said:
having offensive capabilities is necessary to perform tactical sorties or first strikes, CAS, etc like you were saying.
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Well they say offense is the best defence right? The more air bases you take out, the less fighters you have to defend in the air and the same applies to us wrt PLAAF.

Ginvincible said:
I also make the assumption that Indian defense procurement will pull itself together and begin meaningfully inducting platforms and upgrading existing systems in a timely manner, something the Pakistanis seem to do oddly well in comparison.
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We all had the hopes and dreams about Indian defence developments and now have to admit, that it never took off.
One can debate on how Pak can afford all that, but can't argue with the results. Be it JF 17, the AWACS fleet, new combat helicopters and MALE drones, up to the potential to get a 5th gen fighter earlier than we do, it's impressive what they achieved with all the limitations they have. And what makes it worse, they basically used our playbook!

- combining a light class fighter, with a larger radar platform and shared situational awareness => Cope India Mig 21/Su 30

- AWACS and drones => Israeli AWACS and drones

- independent weapon suppliers, licence production, ToT, customization => Su 30 MKI, Russia, Israel, France

While we are turning to the dependence on the US, that they had in the past.
 
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Sancho said:
Never good to underestimate the enemy mate! When you look at capability progress from Kargil till now, PAF evolved more than IAF did, because they were far behind then and are on par, or even superior now.
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I do agree with you not to underestimate enemies but not with PAF becoming superior to IAF. Yes they did inducted jf17 in numbers but so did we inducted su30mkis I'm fact 270 of which there will 40-80 equipped with brahmos missile capabilities. A single squadron of su30mki is much more capable than 4 squadrons of JF17s. Now add 50 upgraded mirages and 69 MIG29s and naval 45 MIG29ks, plus darin3 Jaguars and Akash missiles for protection which reduces dependency for interceptors and the whole picture changes.

If you watched closely exercise Gagan Shakti 10000 sorties were flown in a few days enough to send Pakistan into stone age within a week into war.....🙂🙂🙂
 
lcafanboy said:
I do agree with you not to underestimate enemies but not with PAF becoming superior to IAF. Yes they did inducted jf17 in numbers but so did we inducted su30mkis I'm fact 270 of which there will 40-80 equipped with brahmos missile capabilities. A single squadron of su30mki is much more capable than 4 squadrons of JF17s. Now add 50 upgraded mirages and 69 MIG29s and naval 45 MIG29ks, plus darin3 Jaguars and Akash missiles for protection which reduces dependency for interceptors and the whole picture changes.

If you watched closely exercise Gagan Shakti 10000 sorties were flown in a few days enough to send Pakistan into stone age within a week into war.....🙂🙂🙂
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1) We have to spread our assets along at least 2 borders, PAF can concentrate on 1 border alonw. So even if we have the better individual aircrafts, we have only low numbers on each borders. For example 18 x Rafales against PAF and 18 against PLAAF.
The situation is even worse in the force multipliers section, with faaaar too little AWACS and tankers.


2) When an F15 has problems against a Mig 21, just because it gets radar guidance of a Su 30, consider the advantage JF 17 gets, if properly guided by AWACS.

We lost the technical advantage that we had back in Kargil and we are now even more forced to split forces than ever, since not Pak but China is the main threat. So if the situation allows it (we gain air superiority in an area), we can shift assets to another area, that's what Gaga Shakti showed, but as long as the threat is still there, every border has to fight with what is available in that area and that cuts the numbers down by far. That's why IAF is insisting on MMRCA for so long.
 
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Sancho said:
1) We have to spread our assets along at least 2 borders, PAF can concentrate on 1 border alonw. So even if we have the better individual aircrafts, we have only low numbers on each borders. For example 18 x Rafales against PAF and 18 against PLAAF.
The situation is even worse in the force multipliers section, with faaaar too little AWACS and tankers.


2) When an F15 has problems against a Mig 21, just because it gets radar guidance of a Su 30, consider the advantage JF 17 gets, if properly guided by AWACS.

We lost the technical advantage that we had back in Kargil and we are now even more forced to split forces than ever, since not Pak but China is the main threat. So if the situation allows it (we gain air superiority in an area), we can shift assets to another area, that's what Gaga Shakti showed, but as long as the threat is still there, every border has to fight with what is available in that area and that cuts the numbers down by far. That's why IAF is insisting on MMRCA for so long.
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Yes we need numbers and newer technologies no doubt about it. Having said that IAF proved in Gagan Shakti if need be Pakistan will be send to stone age within first 3-4 days into war (this is the time which will be required by plaaf to mobilize) after which IAF will turn to chinese borders to defend our borders and it's known IAF has advantage there since our fighters can operate with full loads and plaaf fighters due to higher bases won't be able to lift weapons in full loads... So it's manageable till now. But we need offensive capabilities against China to deter any misadventures by China and for that numbers are required..
 
lcafanboy said:
Yes we need numbers and newer technologies no doubt about it. Having said that IAF proved in Gagan Shakti if need be Pakistan will be send to stone age within first 3-4 days into war (this is the time which will be required by plaaf to mobilize) after which IAF will turn to chinese borders to defend our borders and it's known IAF has advantage there since our fighters can operate with full loads and plaaf fighters due to higher bases won't be able to lift weapons in full loads... So it's manageable till now. But we need offensive capabilities against China to deter any misadventures by China and for that numbers are required..
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After GaganShakti, even PLAAF accepted that IAF is as good as USAF considering the tempo of strikes.
 
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lcafanboy said:
Yes we need numbers and newer technologies no doubt about it.
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And until we don't have that, PAF will keep catching up or surpassing us in several areas.

lcafanboy said:
and it's known IAF has advantage there since our fighters can operate with full loads and plaaf fighters due to higher bases won't be able to lift weapons in full loads...
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Old myth, based on the pov, that PLAAF has to operate like IAF. The problem is, they don't need fighters to carry heavy strike loads, when they have strategic bombers, that are operating from other bases. So contrary to IAFs MKIs, J10s and 11s will mainly fly air defence and air superiority, with additional SEAD or CAS missions, that require only lighter loads, which already can be seen by the reports and pics of their training in Tibet region.
 
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Sancho said:
And until we don't have that, PAF will keep catching up or surpassing us in several areas.
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PAF won't be able to catch up IAF for the foreseeable future. Their economy won't allow. And in fact the gap will only grow with time until PAF becomes mediocre force by 2030.


Sancho said:
The problem is, they don't need fighters to carry heavy strike loads, when they have strategic bombers, that are operating from other bases. So contrary to IAFs MKIs, J10s and 11s will mainly fly air defence and air superiority, with additional SEAD or CAS missions, that require only lighter loads, which already can be seen by the reports and pics of their training in Tibet region.
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Strategic bombers are slow and easily intercepted. And if they just fly their j10 and flanker copies for air defence then IAF can easily take on plaaf and Chinese won't be able to do anything. Then the only thing left will be nuclear MAD which neither China nor India will allow as there are saner minds across both the borders unlike on the Indo Pak border where nuclear zealots are itching to see nuclear mushrooms.
 
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lcafanboy said:
PAF won't be able to catch up IAF for the foreseeable future.
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Don't base your opinions only on biased belives, look at the facts!

In Kargil IAF was superior, because they had BVR and guided strike capability.
PAF has both today and added stand off strike and SEAD thx to JF17.

IAF has AWACS and MALE drones, with the first armed once on order/delivery too.
PAF already has superior AWACS numbers (= superior coverage of the Indo-Pak border) and more on order, also recently ordered armed MALE drones.

IAF now integrated Brahmos cruise missile, PAF already had cruise missiles before.

You can't ignore the big improvements PAF made in the last 20 years, they are a modern AF today, with much of the capabilities that IAF has too. All that with far less budget and much less accessibility on the market. And keep in mind, they are suppose to be the smaller problem for IAF!!!


lcafanboy said:
Strategic bombers are slow and easily intercepted.
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😊 By the time they enter Indian airspace, there should not be anything left to intercept them.
 
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563-E0-FD9-0-F06-4654-ACB3-4-ACB2527-BAFE.jpg
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1098391214829723649

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Officials said that New Delhi’s objections had been shared with the US in 2008 itself. India had said at the time that the F-16s would be misused against it and that they were not meant for anti-terror operations, as was claimed by Pakistan when it had requested an $890-million funding to upgrade 46 F-16 A/B fighters to a new generation Block 52 version. Incidentally, the upgrade deal, which was passed after intense debate in the US Congress, included five hundred of the AIM-120C-5 AMRAAMs. Besides, Pakistan had obtained seven hundred and fifty Mark-84 2000 lb General Purpose bombs, seven hundred BLU–109 2000 lb Penetrator bombs and five hundred Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM). US Congress records stated that “these weapons will be available for delivery to Pakistan beginning June 2010”.

India sharing F-16 evidence with America
 
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Pakistan Army AH-1Z at AMARG

Nine Pakistani AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters are currently stored at 309th Aerospace Maintenance And Regeneration Group (AMARG), Tucson (AZ). Their delivery was postponed with the excuse that Pakistan was not ready to receive them. It is uncertain what the future delivery timeframe will be.

All helicopters are in the process of being covered in white rubber coating known as 'spraylat' to preserve them in pristine condition. The nine Vipers involved are; 786-061, 062, 063, 067, 068, 069, 070, 071, and 072. The other three, 786-064 to 066, are thought to be stored elsewhere, most likely at NAS Patuxent River (MD).

See the Scramble Facebook News (SFN) item of 22 July 2018 where the first two Vipers were reported at 309th AMARG

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