People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[_Anonymous_]

In my opinion, how do you define foc, J-20 has been produced nearly 300, has become the core of China's air combat aircraft, can't this become foc? Even with the WS10, I think a good example is the F14A, the engine used is the old TF30, the F110 was used later, and the f14a, all the brilliant achievements were done on the TF30 engine. This is very similar to J20

How many J-10 A did you produce before moving on to the B & C versions ? Answer that & you'd see what I'm theorising.

Does that mean all the earlier iterations were bad ? Nope. Far from it. They had limited capabilities unless they were upgraded assuming they had the capacity to be upgraded.

I can't tell whether this method of launch is by design as in whether the development companies & the user which is the PLAAF would've preferred it or is this at the behest of the CMC / CCP for propaganda .

After all totalitarian states are known to indulge in it & have almost turned it into an art form. Like the USSR . They used to initiate projects in great secrecy & then announce it to the world by staging a grand launch . And the CCP has learnt all its lessons from the USSR thoroughly. Too thoroughly I'd argue.

 

[_Anonymous_]

China launched:
02 6th Gen Fighters
01 New Gen AWACS
Type 076 LHA


Meanwhile Indian MoD (Defence Secretary) launched:

Post from Bharat Shakti

Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh launched the Rashtraparv website & app on Good Governance Day.

youtube.com

Let's hope the Indian defence establishment derives the right lessons & at least kicks off a study program for a 6 th Gen FA which is due , focuses more on Indigenization by putting their money where their mouth is instead of merely mouthing platitudes & more importantly open up their purse strings.

Listen to the ex DG Aero Cluster - DRDO M Z Siddique recently retired some time back .

https://twitter.com/x/status/1872474676255199291

It's at times like this & on the Indo China war gaming thread I'm reminded of what Hellfire noted about Leaderji . He called him Nehru 2.0. Whether he'd actually emulate his fate vis a vis China only time would tell. But thus far he seems to be on a similar trajectory.

I hate to admit that's how things have panned out coz whatever you're seeing in defence today is what we'd have achieved even otherwise given the momentum which has built up over the years.

In other words there's been no net effect the present dispensation has had on it like it has left its imprint on infrastructure for instance.

I think it's safe to make this statement after 10 years. If the incoming IAF chief has to make a statement like we'd fight with what we have in his very first Press Conference 25 years after this statement was made by another Chief in a similar context 25 years ago , that to me is a scathing indictment of the current state of affairs & this government's treatment of defence.

 

[LX1111]

How many J-10 A did you produce before moving on to the B & C versions ? Answer that & you'd see what I'm theorising

Depending on the source, there are approximately 220 J-10A and 120 J10S

Does that mean all the earlier iterations were bad ? Nope. Far from it. They had limited capabilities unless they were upgraded assuming they had the capacity to be upgraded

Recently released images show that these aircraft are upgraded with AESA radar and WS-10

I can't tell whether this method of launch is by design as in whether the development companies & the user which is the PLAAF would've preferred it or is this at the behest of the CMC / CCP for propaganda .

This idea itself is wrong, the United States from the launch of YF-22 to F22 to achieve FOC also experienced 8 years

 

[_Anonymous_]

Depending on the source, there are approximately 220 J-10A and 120 J10S

Recently released images show that these aircraft are upgraded with AESA radar and WS-10
View attachment 39193

You're merely proving my point .

This idea itself is wrong, the United States from the launch of YF-22 to F22 to achieve FOC also experienced 8 years

The first flight of the J-20 was in 2011 or at least that's when it was first publicized to the world in something similar you attempted yesterday.

So what is democratic India doing? Do you play IOC1, IOC2, IOC3, FOC1, FOC2?This stupid game to fool everyone?

That was a bad project management but that was also the second fighter aircraft we designed & the second such project we undertook with the first being in the 1960 .

How many fighter aircraft & bomber projects has the PLAAF launched in the same time period ? What does it say about your project management capabilities ?

 

[LX1111]

Let's hope the Indian defence establishment derives the right lessons & at least kicks off a study program for a 6 th Gen FA which is due , focuses more on Indigenization by putting their money where their mouth is instead of merely mouthing platitudes & more importantly open up their purse strings

India has localized enough, they have produced jaguar, they have produced MIG-21, they have produced SU30, now most of the aircraft are required to be produced in India, but this model can only be turned into an assembly plant, India has not made its own improvements to these aircraft, this is different from China, and why China can make progress

That was a bad project management but that was also the second fighter aircraft we designed & the second such project we undertook with the first being in the 1960 .

How many fighter aircraft & bomber projects has the PLAAF launched in the same time period ? What does it say about your project management capabilities ?

To be fair, let's compare China's second homegrown fighter, the JH-7,
It first flew in 1988 and entered PLA service in 1992, only four years later

 

[Lolwa]

Okay so China created history by flying not one but two sixth gen fighter aircraft in public for the first time. IDK how our IAF sleeps peacefully at night after witnessing this much progress from an adversary.

Tbf 5th and 6th gen are not real generations. We need to see the RCS numbers. If they surpass the stealth rcs of the f-22 then we could consider it 6th gen. For now it's just a triple engined j-20 with a bigger iwb and range.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Tbf 5th and 6th gen are not real generations. We need to see the RCS numbers. If they surpass the stealth rcs of the f-22 then we could consider it 6th gen. For now it's just a triple engined j-20 with a bigger iwb and range.

5th gen fighter planes are basically jets with very small frontal RCS primarily in the X Band(8-12GHz). 6th gen stealth is more broadband and RCS shall remain low across all frequencies. Also thanks to elimination of vertical tails, RCS remains very low from side aspect. Sometimg which none of the current 5th gen fighter-planes can claim.

Also, the third engine could very well be Ramjet/Scramjet which may enable this Chinese 6th gen to fly near space in high-supersonic/low-hypersonic regime.

China just broke new grounds, IMO. Rather than dissing them, we should admire and appreciate their tech.

As far our counter is concerned. We need more Rafales and a substantial Su-57M fleet. That along with our indigenous programmes shall help IAF catch China much quicker than what people expect. With Astra MK2 about to go into production, we've already caught them in BVR missiles. Our only miss at the moment is lack of a 5th gen.

But it's coming soon, mark my words.......

 

[LX1111]

This should be the best picture

 

[Hydra]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1872547049436238072

So CAC with this spec, i beleive it will be a strike aircraft and other one being a multirole aircraft.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Until WS-15 is fully ready, don't think they can still match US 6th gen platforms with AETP based engines. And even with WS-15 it'll still best be 6- gen plane.

Sorry to our elated Chinese members, but there ain't no 6th gen jet without proper 6th gen engines. Hard but true reality.

 

[randomradio]

Today, my Indian friends, today marks an era, a leading era of China's military aviation industry, today is not flying the sixth generation fighter, but a declaration that China will control the future sky,
View attachment 39143
View attachment 39144

It seems overly complicated with its 3 engine design. Unless this aircraft operates at near-hypersonic speeds, it's quite a bit over-spec'd.

 

[randomradio]

Wonder why the USAF is still keeping its NGAD prototype under wraps? Apparently flew much earlier. China has beat them to it.

They are still undecided on whether they want something three times more expensive than the F-35 or something as cheap. They have left it for Trump to decide.

We will know what the USAF thinks of these new Chinese jets based on what decision is made.

 

[randomradio]

There is a rumor that the sixth-generation fighter jets of Shenyang and Chengdu are not in competition, Chengdu's aircraft mainly focuses on high stealth, high speed, mainly focuses on ground attack, and has a great range, Shenyang's aircraft focuses on high mobility, high stealth, mainly focuses on air attack, and takes into account the design of carrier-based aircraft
Of course, it's all just rumors

Makes sense for these jets to be the winners (or even losers) of two different competitions.

 

[randomradio]

A brief description of the future tailless fighter
View attachment 39178
The third is the vertical and horizontal decoupling control technology of tailless layout. After the removal of the tail, both the longitudinal and heading control need to design the control plane on the wing, which inevitably leads to the problems of vertical and vertical triaxial coupling and the reduction of control efficiency. For tailless layout, the lateral and directional coupling will be more serious, and the control ability should also meet the requirements of coordinated large roll maneuvers within the flight envelope. Taking heading control as an example, as shown in FIG. 10 and FIG. 11, there are obvious differences in control efficiency under different heading control modes under different conditions. The United States X-47B unmanned aerial vehicle and the Russian "Hunter" unmanned aerial vehicle all use the open outer wing upper wing spoiler for heading control, the French "Neuron" unmanned aerial vehicle uses the outer wing lower wing spoiler for heading control, and the British "Thor" unmanned aerial vehicle uses the same
The course control is realized by the difference of the inner and outer elevon of the trailing edge of the wing. The above exploration can provide richer combinations and possible decoupling
Control conditions.

View attachment 39179

This jet seems to have very limited agility with such small control surfaces. And it doesn't seem like its got TVC, with its exhaust recessed into the airframe.

So with limited flight testing necessary it's possible this jet can enter service in just 3-4 years from now.

It's basically a light bomber.

 

[randomradio]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/1h9c642/in_the_next_four_weeks_china_is_likely_to_unveil

Interesting!

This is basically the answer to the range vs endurance design I have been talking about on the AHCA thread.

We do not have a need for this type of jet yet, but the Chinese and Americans definitely do.

Aao bhaiyyoo... chalo ab doob mare...

Let the PMO, IAF Top Brass, HAL, DRDO, MoD and Nirmala Tai lead the procession......

We don't have to change our procurement plans. The IAF knows about all this stuff already.

 

[randomradio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1872521373563933029

@randomradio i used to said that we should have taken the IP for C17 at whatever price & conditions that uncle sam asks for, so that we can replace all IL76 with us, and can be used a common plat form for our futur EW aircraft, AWACS, maritime surveillance aircraft etc. But people were against c17 using for such thing, and now we seeing china doing same thing with c17 equivalent.

The Y-20 is an IL-76 equivalent. And we can't afford to replace our IL-76s yet. Not to mention the C-17s are no more. Otoh, IL-476 is available. Much cheaper.

 

[randomradio]

Great achievement by China. However, we don't need to panic just because they've (unofficially) unveiled two 6th gen prototypes. We need to continue our military modernisation so that by the time China decides to go to war with us, we're powerful enough to thwart them off.

Our procurement has been planned for such an era. We need next gen capabilities from 2035 onwards.

 

[Asterion Moloc]

View attachment 39184
J-16 rader
View attachment 39185
J-10C rader

This is what you said of J-16 radar few posts back

My friend, these things don't get out. So far, we haven't even seen radar photos of the J-16

And now sharing CAD model? so what is it? are there any real pictures of these radars without cover like this AN/APG-81 image or the AN/APG-80 you shared in November saying first image of J-10C radar with cover

View attachment 37973
The first Clear photo of the J-10C radar
View attachment 37975
APG-80

 

[Lolwa]

5th gen fighter planes are basically jets with very small frontal RCS primarily in the X Band(8-12GHz). 6th gen stealth is more broadband and RCS shall remain low across all frequencies. Also thanks to elimination of vertical tails, RCS remains very low from side aspect. Sometimg which none of the current 5th gen fighter-planes can claim.

Also, the third engine could very well be Ramjet/Scramjet which may enable this Chinese 6th gen to fly near space in high-supersonic/low-hypersonic regime.

China just broke new grounds, IMO. Rather than dissing them, we should admire and appreciate their tech.

As far our counter is concerned. We need more Rafales and a substantial Su-57M fleet. That along with our indigenous programmes shall help IAF catch China much quicker than what people expect. With Astra MK2 about to go into production, we've already caught them in BVR missiles. Our only miss at the moment is lack of a 5th gen.

But it's coming soon, mark my words.......

I'm just being realistic. Chinese don't have the material science of the west. Not yet. Both the j-20 and J-xx have more range than the f-22 but stealth is still up for questioning.

 

[randomradio]

Until WS-15 is fully ready, don't think they can still match US 6th gen platforms with AETP based engines. And even with WS-15 it'll still best be 6- gen plane.

Sorry to our elated Chinese members, but there ain't no 6th gen jet without proper 6th gen engines. Hard but true reality.

That should be left to 2030. We do not know if there's a VCE engine in development.