Pralay and Shaurya: Conventional Strike Surface-to-Surface Missiles

Hydra said:
Fighters cannot reach at Chinese cities, they simply lacks endurance.
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The Tu-160 can't penetrate that far, hence long range CMs.

To go that far in, even stealth bombers need escorts. Like the B-21 is expected to be escorted by the NGAD. We are not capable of doing that. And the Tu-160 will definitely get shot down.

The point of the Tu-160 is to mass long range fires and threaten certain geographies that fighters cannot reach, like Diego Garcia, ECS/SCS, Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. It's a capability we will need in the 2030s, not this decade.

It can also be seen as the IAF's answer to the IA's IRF plan.
 
randomradio said:
The Tu-160 can't penetrate that far, hence long range CMs.

To go that far in, even stealth bombers need escorts. Like the B-21 is expected to be escorted by the NGAD. We are not capable of doing that. And the Tu-160 will definitely get shot down.

The point of the Tu-160 is to mass long range fires and threaten certain geographies that fighters cannot reach, like Diego Garcia, ECS/SCS, Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. It's a capability we will need in the 2030s, not this decade.

It can also be seen as the IAF's answer to the IA's IRF plan.
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I am not asking to send our bomber on day 1. Let it fire long range missiles at stand of range, take down all the enemy AD and use it for carpet bombing. TU160 can fire missile but cant do carpet bombing, B1 can fire missiles and capable of doing carpet bombing too. Now tell me which aircraft IAF should choose? I will go with B1 because it has an added advantage.
 
Hydra said:
I am not asking to send our bomber on day 1. Let it fire long range missiles at stand of range, take down all the enemy AD and use it for carpet bombing. TU160 can fire missile but cant do carpet bombing, B1 can fire missiles and capable of doing carpet bombing too. Now tell me which aircraft IAF should choose? I will go with B1 because it has an added advantage.
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Unlike the Tu-160M, B-1's not in production, the B-21 will replace it soon. It's on its last legs.
 
Ashwin said:
Not even close. @hellbent
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I since long maintained shaurya is in production albeit low numbers , after that around 2020 news came out of it orders , which as I said before was already produced in few numbers for deployment etc

Also why a not in production missile go through 3 design iterations of its land launcher over a decade or so ? Unless feedback by endusers

Shauryas logictic foot print is nil compared to A series of equivalent range
 
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hellbent said:
I since long maintained shaurya is in production albeit low numbers , after that around 2020 news came out of it orders , which as I said before was already produced in few numbers for deployment etc

Also why a not in production missile go through 3 design iterations of its land launcher over a decade or so ? Unless feedback by endusers
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So why aren't they publicising it ? One of the first tasks ought to be is to let the world know our capabilities & the fact we're deploying it in adequate numbers. Sometimes I wonder if our people truly understand what deterrence is or the entire threat paradigm we face ?

Apparently BMs & TBMs like Pralay & Shaurya weren't inducted earlier as India didn't want Pakistan to misconstrue a conventional attack by such missiles as a strategic attack & launch a counter strike.

Hence for a long time we slept on mass production & improvement of both Pralay & Shaurya apart from other iterations.

All this when the Paxtanis themselves had no qualms whatsoever declaring to whosoever was willing to hear that their entire arsenal was targeted against only 1 country India especially when they threatened usage of their Hatf & Nasr tactical missiles armed with tactical nukes to counter Cold Start.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
So why aren't they publicising it ? One of the first tasks ought to be is to let the world know our capabilities & the fact we're deploying it in adequate numbers. Sometimes I wonder if our people truly understand what deterrence is or the entire threat paradigm we face ?

Apparently BMs & TBMs like Pralay & Shaurya weren't inducted earlier as India didn't want Pakistan to misconstrue a conventional attack by such missiles as a strategic attack & launch a counter strike.

Hence for a long time we slept on mass production & improvement of both Pralay & Shaurya apart from other iterations.

All this when the Paxtanis themselves had no qualms whatsoever declaring to whosoever was willing to hear that their entire arsenal was targeted against only 1 country India especially when they threatened usage of their Hatf & Nasr tactical missiles armed with tactical nukes to counter Cold Start.
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Few SRBM based nukes were always there eg Prithvi

What was going on inside the head of those in charge can't say , they more concerned about what others think or will do, just a reflection of overall dhimmi & regressive mindset since 1947
 
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hellbent said:
Few SRBM based nukes were always there eg Prithvi

What was going on inside the head of those in charge can't say , they more concerned about what others think or will do, just a reflection of overall dhimmi & regressive mindset since 1947
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Imagine caring about a failed worthless state due to which we didn't inducted a single tactical BM, that would have provided us counter against china despite knowing about the threat deep down. Height of coward ness and short sightedness.
 
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Maybe shaurya was supposed to be the tech demo/tech validation like nirbhay to be inducted by small numbers? Its a quasi ballistic probably mirv capable as well, so the idea was to validate the simulation, telemetry, all the parameter they need for the tech etc. Based on that knowledge now Rudram 2 3 with quasi ballistic trajectory & different launching platform, SLCM, SLBM everything now coming up.
Just my guess. Rudram is just an example since R2 follow a quasi ballistic course with selected waypoint, without mastering ability to propel a kinetic vehicle in a quasi ballistic trajectory at high speed, you can not progress on making future missiles. These are core tech, documents for such are frozen & kept highly secret.
 
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marich01 said:
Maybe shaurya was supposed to be the tech demo/tech validation like nirbhay to be inducted by small numbers? Its a quasi ballistic probably mirv capable as well, so the idea was to validate the simulation, telemetry, all the parameter they need for the tech etc. Based on that knowledge now Rudram 2 3 with quasi ballistic trajectory & different launching platform, SLCM, SLBM everything now coming up.
Just my guess. Rudram is just an example since R2 follow a quasi ballistic course with selected waypoint, without mastering ability to propel a kinetic vehicle in a quasi ballistic trajectory at high speed, you can not progress on making future missiles. These are core tech, documents for such are frozen & kept highly secret.
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Shaurya was always operational as B-05. Land based updated ones are operational now under our SFC.

Pralay is also based on it(minus booster) and will be our own desi Iskander.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Shaurya was always operational as B-05. Land based updated ones are operational now under our SFC.

Pralay is also based on it(minus booster) and will be our own desi Iskander.
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Yes true, what I mean is its still derivative from k15, for a shorter range. Before our entire threat perception was Pak centric. And as the main post above said, we were not much clear about deterrence & full magnitude of threat perception in regard to China. Hence we were not even clear on whether to fight via nuke deterrence or via fighting a conventional war. Because then you need better reserve of conventional role weapons, need dual role tactical/strategic systems. Armed forces always bought the conventional ammo stock off outside, very few made here, while we made the silver bullets ourselves.

Facing this current situation, forces obviously found shaurya have some shortfall in striking china. You can deter china only if you are able to reach every corner of them via conventional method, not just by nuclear delivery. So now we need conventional/dual role type of weapon system that can reach every part of china. What can give that? K4-6 in conventional role can, land launched version of those same can, while agni sries take over nuclear deterrence, new gen agni prime can do better. So our threat perception went from level 1 to level 5 & hopefully similar derivative from K4 & others would come into SFC in future.

This sleeping on mass production of pralay shaurya & creating further derivatives off other projects was the big shortfall before. Hopefully not anymore. We can live with small deployed number at present like treating the missile as a tech demo LSP, but backend development should be going on & stock should be developed over the years.
 
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Fatalis said:
www.aninews.in

India moving towards creating Rocket Force, defence services to acquire around 250 more 'Pralay' ballistic missiles

In a giant leap towards creating a rocket force to tackle the threat from the northern borders, Indian defence forces are set to place orders for two more units of the Pralay ballistic missiles at the cost of over Rs 7,500 crore.
www.aninews.in www.aninews.in
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feels kind of rehashed , last time we heard of pralay cleared also had exact similar info out. Hopefully not just double dipping.
 
In a giant leap towards creating a strong rocket force to tackle the threat from the northern borders,

Indian defence forces are set to place orders for two more units of the Pralay ballistic missiles at the cost of over Rs 7,500 crore.

The move comes after the Defence Ministry in December last year cleared one unit of these missiles for the Indian Air Force.

"Two more units of the Pralay ballistic missiles are going to be acquired for the defence forces, which are on their way towards creating a Rocket force including assets of all three forces," Defence sources told ANI.

The proposal for the acquisition of these missiles for ground forces is at an advanced stage and is expected to be cleared soon, they said.

The Pralay ballistic missiles can take out targets at 150 to 500 kms and are extremely difficult to intercept for the enemy through interceptor missiles.

Work is also on to increase the range of these missiles by another few hundred kilometres to give a stronger capability to forces, the sources said.

Both China and Pakistan have ballistic missiles which are for tactical roles. The missile developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation is being further developed, the sources said. The missile system started getting development around 2015 and the development of such a capability was given a push by the late Gen Bipin Rawat as Chief of Army Staff. The missile was successfully tested twice on consecutive days last year on December 21 and December 22 in 2021. A quasi-ballistic surface-to-surface missile, 'Pralay' has been developed in a way to be able to defeat interceptor missiles. It has the ability to change its path after covering a certain range in midair. 'Pralay' is powered by a solid propellant rocket motor and other new technologies. The missile guidance system includes state-of-the-art navigation and integrated avionics. The missile would be first inducted into the Indian Air Force and would be followed by the Indian Army. (ANI)
 
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