Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Himanshu
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No chance, that will need redo of entire sub development process. Hardware is easy to replace softwares are not.
P-75I will carry Indian SLCM, Brahmos-M and very likely a new Indian HWT. It's unclear what electronics we would prefer. Spain could offer a customizable deal.
The motor will be Indian, a 5 kW one. Indian Li-ion batteries too. So they only need to make sure the diesel engine is sufficiently uprated.
What is the update on sonar and radar which are the core areas of your expertise?
All the frontline ships and submarines of various types have built sonar from us. In fact, very few ships may have imported one. Otherwise, most of the ships and submarines of the Indian navy have BEL sonars, of course, designed in collaboration with NPL. It was only the P-75 which is manufactured in collaboration with DCNS [Naval Group] which has its own. Otherwise, all other submarines including the strategic platforms have BEL’s communication systems and combat management systems (CMS) as well.
So, can the BEL provide such a system for the upcoming P-75 I submarine?
We are working with DRDO and even we had a discussion with Mazagon Dock (MDL) and other indigenous platform manufacturers about to what extent indigenous solutions can be given for P-75I.
I know, for new imported system its not possible without huge cost increase. Same reason we use DCNS combat management system for kalvari. For kilo we replaced many subsystems like sonar suite, new CMS makes sense.
And i dont think they replaced CMS of 209. MDL is still taking help from OEM, evident with their integration of harpoons. Only, Turkey did that as far as i know.
What had heard, is that the last 3 ordered had some changes to 'Indianise' them. The P-75I if its DCNS, then there is high probability of using BEL. This is all hearsay, of course.
Ya, if you can anything of that size requirements.The P75I is out of the race to be the next submarine programme.
Interesting how you were wiped out from all Australian contacts also.
The P75I is out of the race to be the next submarine programme.
P-75I is the same as MMRCA/MRFA. The requirement is for an operationally proven system. So the competition was always between Type 216, KSS-III and S-80 Plus. The rest were just participants like the other 4 MMRCA candidates.
Basically, IN doesn't want to be first-of-class owner.
The fact that at least 3 S-80 Plus will be active at the time of signature does help.
In any case, France will work with India on the SSNs.
What's also interesting is to try and imagine what DCNS's reaction might have been if it had been consulted: my guess is that it wouldn't have responded because it felt that it was committing large budgets for too low a probability of success given recent experience.Ya, if you can anything of that size requirements.
Interesting how you were wiped out from all Australian contacts also.
If it takes the same amount of time, there's a good chance we'll never see it.
i guess you mean « contracts ».(…) Interesting how you were wiped out from all Australian contacts also.
Here’s how:
(wapo oct.18 2022)
https://archive.ph/u6cSJ#selection-147.0-147.119
Retired U.S. admirals advise Australia on deal for nuclear submarines…
Two retired U.S. admirals and three former U.S. Navy civilian leaders are playing critical but secretive roles as paid advisers to the government of Australia during its negotiations to acquire top-secret nuclear submarine technology from the United States and Britain.The Americans are among a group of former U.S. Navy officials whom the Australian government has hired as high-dollar consultants to help transform its fleet of ships and submarines, receiving contracts worth as much as $800,000 a person, documents show…
Or: (apr.06 2023) The 'Senior Advisor and Principal Author' of our Defence Strategic Review is a Director of the United States Studies Centre - Pearls and Irritations
Serious questions must be asked about conflicts of interest among Australian government advisors in both AUKUS and the Defence Strategic Review.
Under the Morrison government, the US, in keeping with its strategic objective of strengthening its alliances in the Indo-Pacific, stepped up its efforts to bolster support within Australia for the bilateral relationship – especially on the military and security front. Since the election of the Albanese government the tempo of this campaign has accelerated further with the focus increasingly on the promotion of AUKUS and the Australian acquisition of nuclear-powered submarines (SSNs)…
I don't have to imagine, there is no proven system that DCNS can offer.
The irony of the Navantia (Spain) bid is that the S80 class is a modified version of the Scorpene class SSK, the same boat that is in service with the Indian Navy. It would be tragic - in terms of the lack of lessons learned from the Kalvari Class programme - if the Indian Navy chose the S80 Class submarine.
From a construction and learning curve point of view, the S80 class would be ideally suited to the Indian Navy. The problem is that the manpower that built the Kalvari class vessels is with MDL and Navantia has partnered with L&T for the S80 class. So the learning curve will be just as long (leading to delays), for an entirely new workforce that has to be trained.
You are negotiating with DCNS for three more Scorpenes (which are also being modified and carrying more Indian equipment, with the DRDO AIP being a key element).
Why doesn't the Indian Navy abandon this absurd competition and go ahead with the construction of the Scorpene? Build six more boats (instead of three) as part of project 75A. Then, instead of project 76, make a follow-up programme for project 75B (six more boats). And so on. Each subsequent class will have a higher level of Indian content, with the ultimate goal being a fully indigenous boat. That's what you're doing now with the Delhi class (project 15), the Kolkata class (project 15A), the Visakhapatnam class (project 15B), and so on.
What do the Spanish have - to sell a modified Scorpene - that India doesn't have with the Kalvari class? Do you have a long-term vision for a partnership with a foreign equipment manufacturer?