There were 2 bidders only, Rus and Koreans withdrew, none else were there.
Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Himanshu
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Type 212 are one the most deepest diving conventional subs out there.... Conventional Sub running on diesel power which can dive to great depths are practically useless by the way.
Japanese knew they wouldn't be able to fullfill the ToT conditions, so they withdrew. The Spanish have not. Lets see.
No they aren't. Type 212 and Soryu are having some limitations. Type 212 due to metal used. Soryu due to AIP used.
Kilos and Scorpenes can.
Why would they have to choose a magnetic hull if it's not suitable for us?
This doesn't look like a derivative a of Type-212. But Type-212CD, it's obvious from the angled hull design. Don't go by the name, it's a very different and bigger 2,500+ ton submarine.
Another chance is germans introducing the new hull design to Type-214 family.
‘Germany well positioned in Navy’s submarine deal’
TKMS successfully demonstrated a ‘sea-proven’ Air Independent Propulsion capability, the key determinant in the deal, says the submarine manufacturer’s India head Khalil Rahman
German submarine manufacturer TKMS (Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems) was initially not inclined to bid for the Indian Navy’s mega deal for six conventional submarines under Project-75I due to the “terms and conditions”, but later entered the fray as the German government backed the project, said the company’s India head Khalil Rahman on Wednesday.
He said they successfully demonstrated the Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) capability, the key determinant in the deal, on their Type 212 submarine in the evaluation conducted by the Navy recently.
TKMS has pitched a customised version of its Type 214 for the Indian Navy’s requirements. “Technically we are in a very strong position. Indian Navy is very happy with the Type 209s in service. We have a sea-proven AIP,” Mr. Rahman said expressing confidence during a media interaction. “Our design will be specifically tailored to India and will ensure stealth in the waters... As per terms of the Request For Proposal (RFP), the P-75I design will be handed over to the Indian Navy.”
The Navy’s mega-submarine deal under Project-75I, estimated at over ₹43,000 crore, crossed a major milestone with the completion of Field Evaluation Trials (FET) to check the compliance of the bids received. There are two contenders in the fray - Germany’s TKMS and Navantia of Spain. While an Indian Navy team visited TKMS shipyard in March for FET, the evaluation of Navantia’s offer was conducted in the last week of June, as reported by The Hindu earlier. The German government is expected to take up a stake in TKMS.
On their entry into the deal, Mr. Rahman stated that initially, TKMS had made the decision to keep out. “We initially made the decision not to bid due to terms and conditions in the RFP…. Company felt there was too much risk in the commercial terms. These issues have now been resolved… One of the reasons is the support of the German government,” he said.
He said the German government historically regarded India as a market and partner, and it was really after the invasion of Ukraine that there was a “change of thinking” in the German government, when it was felt that it was very necessary to enter into a deeper partnership with India.
While TKMS has partnered with Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL), Navantia has partnered with Larsen & Toubro.
The FET was only to demonstrate AIP and not to demonstrate the submarine in general, and stipulations in the RFO were very clear in regard to demonstrating a “sea-proven AIP”, Mr. Rahman stressed. The TKMS AIP on offer will be both fuel cell- as well as Lithium Ion-based, giving it enhanced performance, he said, explaining that while fuel cell gives long-range endurance at low speed, Lithium Ion “functions at high speed”.
The RFP states that the first submarine should have indigenous content (IC) of 45% which should go up to 60% for the sixth and last submarine. Also, it stipulates that the first submarine be rolled out 84 months or seven years from the signing of the contract. With both the FETs completed, a technical report will be submitted by the Indian Navy to the Defence Ministry, after which staff evaluation would be done to determine who all have complied.
The submarine deal is expected to figure prominently during upcoming high-level talks with both Germany and Spain. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is scheduled to visit India in the second half of October for inter-governmental consultations while Prime Minister Narendra Modi is likely to visit Spain in the next few months.
Navantia has offered a submarine based on its new S80 class of submarines, the first of which was launched in 2021 and was commissioned into the Spanish Navy as S-81 Isaac Peral last November. L&T will be responsible for constructing the submarines.
An AIP module acts as a force multiplier as it enables conventional submarines to remain submerged for longer duration thereby improving endurance as well as stealth.
Since World War II, TKMS has built 175 submarines and there are 52 AIP-equipped submarines either operating across the globe or contracted, company officials added
Actually the ball is in the Govt hand, much like the rafale deal. My guess is navy will publicly say they are ok with both and Govt would decide which to buy ?
Not sure if Spanish offering is any good, however I want L&T to win this contract.
MDL has built HDW & scorprene. Not sure how much capabilities they gained.
I think they paid $1B or more to France (for scorpene) to compensate for delays in absorbing technology.
Arre I mean rhetorically , Navy will follow all the due process but probably will clear both options & say they are ok with any one. So that is like the rafale deal can go thru G2G route. lets see.
I have a similar sentiment. S80 design with indian AIP would be perfect, i dont know if it s possible in the tender terms.
It will be good for the indian shipbuilding industry in the long run. Two shipyards producing SSKs.
They should move forward with Project 76 in parallel and hand it over to whoever loses P75I.
Why trying to fit the indian AIP on the S80 when it is nearly made on Scorpene ? Scorpene already well known and produce on the indian soil?
After all S80 is a copy and fail paste of Scorpene....
No, Its way bigger than Scorpene. Which is one of the key requirements of the tender. If scorpene was so good you should have participated.
MDL clears crucial trials in Rs 60,000 crore P-75 India submarine tender
New Delhi [India], August 11 (ANI): In the Rs 60,000 crore project to build six advanced conventional submarines, government-owned Mazagaon Dockyards Limited (MDL) has got an edge as it has cleared crucial trials in the programme.
The Indian Navy had held trials for building six advanced submarines with sea-proven Air Independent Propulsion systems which can help the boats to remain underwater for at least two weeks without the need to resurface to charge batteries at regular smaller intervals.
Mumbai-headquartered MDL and Larsen and Toubro are the two contenders in the project with German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and Spanish Navantia as their respective partners.
The MDL has been informed by a Commodore-rank officer of the Indian Navy (Brigadier equivalent in the Army) that they have qualified for the trial requirements, defence sources told reporters.
Meanwhile, the Navy officer from the submarine acquisition directorate has communicated to Larsen and Toubro about deviations in their trials held in Cartagena in Spain in June this year where they demonstrated their system at a submarine base, they said.
The submarine programme is in the middle stages and it has to pass through various stages at higher level in the Defence Ministry and top level of the government for clearance, the sources said.
The government is also focusing on providing more strength to the underwater fleet of the force and has cleared multiple programmes for it.
The Indian Navy's long-term submarine acquisition plan was modified post-2014 to have 18 conventional and 6 nuclear attack submarines.
Project 75 with six Sciroene class boats has been extended to have three more boats from there while Project 75 India will see six conventional submarines getting built in an Indian shipyard.
The next-gen Project 76 to build six conventional submarines with complete Indian design and construction has also been activated and was on the 100-day agenda of the Defence Ministry.
The futuristic project would be taken up by the DRDO and Navy together.
The P-75 India has been in the making for the last few years and due to its stringent requirements, many international firms could not participate as they did not have the capabilities required for it. (ANI)
Can someone confirm if we're being offered the Type 212CD model, or Type 214 mod? If it's the former, the IN has probably already made up its mind.
It's a safer bet imo. There's no third country involvement. The Germans make everything from the combat system and weapons to hull and propulsion. Not so in case of the Spaniards.
It's a safer bet imo. There's no third country involvement. The Germans make everything from the combat system and weapons to hull and propulsion. Not so in case of the Spaniards.
Lol, Woke germans are the main issue unlike Spaniards.
We've dealt with them all these years one way or another. Type 209, SUT torpedo, towed sonar, etc.