Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Ashwin said:
First Rafale for India being flight-tested in France, only one will arrive custom-made




Blame HAL or what ?
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NO.
That means that the first ones will arrived with the F3R french capacity (ie : MICA, Meteor, SCALP, Exocet), but because India didn't chose a french Laser pod, you will have to wait for Laser bomb capacity. Same for SPICE (a AASM "Hammer" purchase would have given you that capacity directly in sept 2019 !) or ASTRA.
And the hot and cold modification, SAT comm, extended Spectra and dedicated Radar modes.... will only arrived one by one until 202.

The last plane will be the first to have all the indian specifications. And all the previous planes will then be retrofited.
 
vstol Jockey said:
when India decided to cancel MMRCA, why did we not consider the unsolicited offer of 20% reduction in price of Typhoon? Today the latest standard Typhoon has nearly 80% of the equipment as standard fit for which we are paying France thru our nose.
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EF has shorter legs than Rafale.
EF nas no born deterrent capacity.
EF hasn't the same disponibility record.
EF is late about AESA.
=> 4 very important aspects for India.
 
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randomradio said:
The Typhoon is still more expensive than the Rafale GTG. The base price was $124M versus Rafale's $85M when MMRCA bids were opened in 2011.
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Are you totally sure of these datas ?

I remember rumors saying that there was only few (ie less than 5) millions between the two.
 
Bon Plan said:
Are you totally sure of these datas ?

I remember rumors saying that there was only few (ie less than 5) millions between the two.
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Yes. It was revealed by Admiral Arun Prakash.

MiG-35 ($ 45 m), F-16 ($60 m), F/A-18 ($60.5 m), Gripen ($82.2 m), Rafale ($ 85.5 m) and Typhoon ($124 m).
 
Proud_Indian said:
What are you saying? The difference between typhoon and rafale was mere $5 million USD.
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I'd go by what the Admiral said.

Anyway:
IAF fighter deal: Rafale much cheaper than Typhoon; govt rules out review - Times of India
"The French Rafale jet, the eventual winner, beat the Typhoon hollow both in terms of life cycle costs and direct acquisition costs. The entire MMRCA project cost would have gone up by around Rs 25,000 crore if Typhoon had been selected over Rafale," a top defence ministry source said on Thursday.

"The fact is that the cost deferential between Typhoon and Rafale was very high… it would cost India around 22% to 25% more if the former had been selected. No government can agree to so much extra," the source said.

Rafale's LCC was 40% less than Typhoon's.
 
RATHORE said:
Cut out the nonsense, there is no Uncle Quattrocchi in the Rafale deal - Times of India

Since the Opposition is clearly just throwing shit against the wall in the hope that something sticks; I hope this whole drama unravels ASAP - and we can move on to making a large scale order for Rafale H's and M's produced in India.
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Preferably, the drama needs to be settled ASAP agreed, but with elections less than an year away, its unlikely the opposition will let the matter go - not because there is anything of importance in there to be dug up, but because opposition needs something to target the govt with. So if they don't get a real issue to talk about, they'll make one up.

Either way, its unlikely the order for additional +36 (or any number) will be placed until after the elections. Once NDA has been reassured with a mandate, it becomes more likely that they become willing to wade into even muddied waters to get what IAF wants. But this close to elections, I doubt the govt can place any more orders at the moment, while the whole thing remains an "issue".
 
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Bon Plan said:
NO.
That means that the first ones will arrived with the F3R french capacity (ie : MICA, Meteor, SCALP, Exocet), but because India didn't chose a french Laser pod, you will have to wait for Laser bomb capacity. Same for SPICE (a AASM "Hammer" purchase would have given you that capacity directly in sept 2019 !) or ASTRA.
And the hot and cold modification, SAT comm, extended Spectra and dedicated Radar modes.... will only arrived one by one until 202.

The last plane will be the first to have all the indian specifications. And all the previous planes will then be retrofited.
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satcom is israeli btw.
 
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Bon Plan said:
NO.
That means that the first ones will arrived with the F3R french capacity (ie : MICA, Meteor, SCALP, Exocet), but because India didn't chose a french Laser pod, you will have to wait for Laser bomb capacity. Same for SPICE (a AASM "Hammer" purchase would have given you that capacity directly in sept 2019 !) or ASTRA.
And the hot and cold modification, SAT comm, extended Spectra and dedicated Radar modes.... will only arrived one by one until 202.

The last plane will be the first to have all the indian specifications. And all the previous planes will then be retrofited.
Click to expand...
You just paraphrased the article. Could you explain your NO!.

Basically, In six years Dassault can only modify and certify one plane according to Indian standard. Am I wrong?
 
halloweene said:
satcom is israeli btw.
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This ?
Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) announced it has received first order for its revolutionary SATCOM (Satellite Communication) terminal with a conformal electronic-steered antenna for fighter jets. ELTA's ELK-1882T SATCOM network system will be installed for the first time, on tens of very advanced Western fighters, with first deliveries planned for 2021. This network system is the latest technology developed by ELTA Systems Ltd., a group and subsidiary of IAI (IAI/ELTA). IAI/ELTA's SATCOM solutions will be displayed at the MilSatCom Show in London, UK on November 7-9, 2017.

The customer has selected the innovative ELK-1882T Ku-band phased array SATCOM network for its ease of installation and integration, which boasts minimal impact on aircraft performance due to the conformal installation. This conformal flush installation generates negligible drag, as opposed to conventional high profile SATCOM dish antennas. In addition, the new system has no moving parts, which greatly enhances reliability and robustness, especially on board modern high maneuvering fighters. The onboard system (terminal) includes a conformal phased antenna installed on the jet's fuselage, comprising the transceiver, modem and High Power Amplifier (HPA) in a single LRU, with an IP LAN connection to the aircraft avionics.
Nissim Hadas, IAI Executive VP & ELTA President, said: "This is a strategic and important cooperation for ELTA's SATCOM products line with a leading aircraft manufacturer and prestigious customer. We are proud to have been selected and look forward to deliver our advanced SATCOM solutions. We are sure that this significant achievement is only the first milestone in positioning ELTA as a leader in electronic steering technology for aircraft communication solutions."
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IAI Announces Launch Customer for SATCOM Terminal for Fighter Aircraft
 
Ashwin said:
You just paraphrased the article. Could you explain your NO!.

Basically, In six years Dassault can only modify and certify one plane according to Indian standard. Am I wrong?
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just paraphrase? ....

'No' means that IAF will not have to wait 2022 for first capacity. In other words, the first Rafale delivered will not be training planes as intended by some.
The first Indian Rafale will be able to make deep raid in an ennemy air field, to protect him self and more (MICA+Meteor) and hit several hardened target with SCALP. To begin.
In 2022, with the delivery of the last of 36 (in fact the first assembled, already on test it seems), ALL the indian capacity will be added to all the fleet. And probably step by step during these 36 month and not all together at the end (as all the Rafale evolved : F1, F2.1, F2.2, F3.0,... F3R)
 
Bon Plan said:
just paraphrase? ....

'No' means that IAF will not have to wait 2022 for first capacity. In other words, the first Rafale delivered will not be training planes as intended by some.
The first Indian Rafale will be able to make deep raid in an ennemy air field, to protect him self and more (MICA+Meteor) and hit several hardened target with SCALP. To begin.
In 2022, with the delivery of the last of 36 (in fact the first assembled, already on test it seems), ALL the indian capacity will be added to all the fleet. And probably step by step during these 36 month and not all together at the end (as all the Rafale evolved : F1, F2.1, F2.2, F3.0,... F3R)
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This is exactly what the article is saying.

First Rafale for India being flight-tested in France, only one will arrive custom-made

Dassault will not be able to deliver all 36 aircrafts with India specific enhancement by 2022.
 
Bon Plan said:
Indeed.
But the planes will not be aero club ones until 2022.

And it's an Indian choice not to use french laser pod and Hammer bombs.
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Yes, that is customer's choice and we are paying for it. Its also a shame for a company with such a long legacy and capability to take six years to integrate some weapons and a pod.
 
Ashwin said:
Yes, that is customer's choice and we are paying for it. Its also a shame for a company with such a long legacy and capability to take six years to integrate some weapons and a pod.
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3 years if the shortest lead time to deliver, from Dassault, LM, Boeing..., a fighter.
India want new weapons on its plane : SPICE. A weapon completely new for Dassault. It need time to integrate a new weapon. And dassault always do things perfectly.

And unfortunately for India, you are the third export customer. Qatar already needs indigenization ! they ordered before you, they will be served before you.

India lacked a huge opportunity with MMRCA.....
 
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