Wright Brothers were bicycle mechanics and they gave the world first powered aircraft. What would you call them?
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
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yes- and that is exactly why the walt disney company was given a contract to make the F 22 too.
DRAL is a JV between two private companies. Can anyone say that DA does not know how to make aircraft.
Ambani doesn't.....surely the dropping of all qualification requirements to give someone a deal shouldn't raise any eyebrows. You want to know the definition of a crony capitalist? Someone who uses political connections to put his hands into any cookie jar that has a treat. He doesn't create a google, an amazon or a facebook or a Boeing....he looks at telecom today and gets into it, he fails. Then he looks at insurance...he fails there too. Finally he looks at defence. Well....you might as well ask the wright brothers to build the Rafale coz they'll do a btter job than these jokers.
Think about it. 1) Mirage update happended during negociations... Dassault collaborated with HAL...
2) MAybe DA think "better plant a new tree than try to straighten a twisted one"
HAL have their own process and will try (sometimes even not willfully) to implement them in Rafale construction. These process do not fit DA. As simple as that.
And @vstol Jockey you should be very worried. One of his 'ventures' is the failing Reliance Electricity Distribution which scammed the people of delhi with 1000s of crores worth of bills. His modus operandi has been simple- pentrate, sit on contract and extract. He is gonna screw us with several tens of thousands of crores.
No. Rafale contract will still be signed with Dassuilt Aviation. If Ambani's screws anyone, it will be DA.
'better plant' is not 'I ask paramount pictures to make F22'. There is a reason why there are qualification requirements- it brings out people with a long track record in an industry with good experience to take the projects and deliver on it. BEML can have a JV with TATRA but if you ask Mc Donalds to make army trucks there is a reason why it will fail.
yeah....surely if ambani screws up we'll penalize Dassault by cancelling the contract and buying Rafales from Walmart instead.
The technical part will be lead -and controlled- by Dassault for several years, you know. They will be the ones on front line, they know their stuff AND have very stringent quality controls...
Who the hell is interested in them being the frontline of anything? We’re doing this to build local capacity and are betting on a company with zero know how and paying to babysit them? You’re trying to defend the indefensible
Ok,gonna give you an insider view (which i was gave orally by an insider) : DA teams were so impressed by HAL disaster work on mirage 2000 that they raised a red flag on commiting with HAL for Rafale. Remind me the intended time schedule of 2000 modernization? Kits are just being wasted somewhere in a hangar...
Yes- these guys messed up building an airplane
So let's give the contract to him because he's very rich
You are right and wrong.
Right that not everybody should be allowed to enter major sectors. Wrong on the historical context part.
Telecom : RCom was never Anil's baby. It was Mukesh's. The vision, mission everything was from Mukesh and his core team. When the family split, RIL had to part with it to ensure the core petroleum business and retail, remained with it. Anil was always a finance chap, hence, it was natural Reliance Capital will go with him. He got telecom, because Mukesh got Retail. Now, his plan was to grow it a bit and sell it. The move to get into GSM was driven by that. The entire vision of understanding the role future cdma would play was seen by Mukesh. Had the group not split, you would have got cable via fibre 10 years back. Do you know, in Bombay there was dark fibre lying right outside buildings as early as 2002-2003?
Reliance Capital : They wanted to setup a bank. Did not get a license due to a (well thought) regulation, that did not let existing business groups to start a bank. Having said that, they are one of the largest nbfcs in the country.
Now coming to the group. Mahindra, Adani, Tata and the rest are all entering. Some of them have failures too. That is the nature of business. To start something, you need someone with money. That is first requirement. If that is sorted, rest will fall in place. Had LM been selected, we would have had Tata. But, the Rafale made it. So there.
wowwww....I'm able to see 'I want to be an engineering and defence major' written all over your post as his mission. Surely he is in the same line as Boeing, Sirkosky et all. In fact Dassault started as an organic farm and grew into an aerospace major further proves your point.
Don't all business groups want to enter? It is lucrative. It is the primary thing which drives business. Boeing, LM, SAAB all have tied up with different houses. None of them have any 'engineering and defence major' experience. It so happens, that Dassault won. And they went with their partner of choice.
Now you can cry foul all you want. But, Tata was not interested. Mahindra and Adani were talking somewhere else. Godrej was not interested. At that point of time, Birla was still not sure. So who do you go with? A company started by you?
The entire premise you are making is that, I don't like Anil Ambani. Hence, I do not agree. Its hogwash.
That's how HAL works.
Most of the year is idled away, and then before delivery, they work overtime for more salary. All trade union bullshit.
Earlier, MKI used to be delivered at the end of the year, so IAF has changed the delivery cycle to curb this practice.
actually all companies prefer to work with engineering and defence majors- like L&T and Tata as a local vendor. Only Dassault is exceptional. They wanted to tie up with Darshini Restaurant instead. Yes- it is very lucrative as a deal worth billions of USD and no one is interested. If that doesn't explain the fact that the process is rigged tthen nothing does.
HAL and Ambani Bandhu's business model are quite different.
HAL was part of the discussion to build 108 Rafale's - flying aircrafts in India under ToT (where the ToT would classify as offset)
Reliance infrastructure's Subsidiary - DRAL, is a JV for building sub-systems that Dassault deems fit to classify as offsets, it could be parts for rafales, or for falcon or even Jigs and fixtures for French plant. Aparently MoD has no say in it. Which is fine as it is for 36 aircrafts bought off the shelf.
Last G2G contract like C17 or C130's did not have any offsets. The question though arises that Dassault would choose R-naval engg at that time s there was no DRAl as a partner, a company that was formed for less than a week, with a horrible track record from Pipavav Shipyards, and financials in doldrums. That aspect for offsets seems to a windfall gains for Ambani , raising legitimate questions of cronyism.
Now for rest of the non-sense on the thread about drawing comparison of any private indian entity with behemoth like HAL, its just funny.