Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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Nothing abnormal. If there's no competitor then the price of the SH can be anything they want it to be. Like that ridiculous NASAMS offer of $1.9B for almost nothing.
In the end, it's not so sure. The Rafale's chances are improving.
Why The US Fears Its Key Defense Partner Could Leak F-35’s Stealth Technology To China?
The growing security ties between China and the UAE may force the US to rethink its F-35 deal with the Gulf nation.According to a recent Wall Street Journal report, the security cooperation between China and the UAE may prompt the US to review its decision to sell what is considered the world’s costliest combat aircraft.
China’s growing footprints in the UAE and the rest of the Middle East are being critically looked at by the US. The UAE is one of the closest allies of the US in the region.
The WSJ report said American intelligence officials have red-flagged a recent incident in which two planes of China’s People’s Liberation Army were seen unloading undetermined cargoes at a UAE airport.
The F-35 Deal
After the signing of the Abraham Accord of 2020 which normalized the relations between the UAE and Israel, the Trump administration had decided to sell 50 F-35 Lightning II aircraft to the Gulf state.The package deal worth $23.37 billion also included about 18 MQ-9B drones and a collection of air-to-air and air-to-ground munitions.
The US regards the F-35 as its crowning jewel and has been rather choosy on sealing the fighter jets. Developed by Lockheed Martin, F-35 is one of the most technologically advanced warplanes ever built.
There are eight international partners for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program — the US, United Kingdom, Italy, Netherlands, Australia, Norway, Denmark, and Canada.
Six Foreign Military Sales customers are also procuring and operating the F-35 — Israel, Japan, South Korea, Poland, Belgium, and Singapore, according to Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor for the program.
It is branded as a high-end stealth machine with unmatched situational awareness to conduct mission operations electronically, aided by advanced data capturing and a robust communication suite.
Its hi-tech sensor package collects a large amount of data, more than any previous fighter has in the history of combat aviation, giving its pilots a decisive advantage in a battle.
According to the deal between the US and UAE, the F-35s were to be delivered to the latter by 2027. The report by WSJ states that the US, before the sale of its most advanced fighter jets, wants guarantees from the UAE that it would not allow China any access to American war-fighting technology.
US Lawmakers Opposed The Deal
In an earlier story, the EurAsian Times had highlighted the hurdles before the US’ F-35 deal and the UAE.Democratic lawmaker and Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Gregory Meeks had raised “many questions about any decision by the Biden Administration to go forward with the Trump Administration’s proposed transfers of F-35s, armed UAVs (drones), munitions and other weapons”.
Israel is the only country in the Middle East to have the F-35 in its arsenal. At the time of the US-UAE deal, Israel had put forward some reservations to it.
The close ties it shares with the US had made it easy for Israel to gain an assurance that even with the deal, the qualitative military edge of Israel in the region will be maintained.
In fact, maintaining the military edge of Israel is one of the conditions of the Biden administration for the sale of the F-35 to the UAE. Apart from this, the US has placed two other conditions — the UAE would ensure that any country, especially China, does not gain access to the F-35 or the drone technology and that the country will not use these weapons in Yemen or Libya.
The Growing UAE-China Ties
The ties between China and the UAE have expanded to diverse sectors over the years – from military to technology as well as health, as seen during the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic.China has provided its Sinopharm vaccine to the UAE, which has started administering the third dose of the same to its citizens.
According to the 2020 Pentagon report on China’s military ambitions, Beijing was considering various locations to establish its military logistics facilities, including the UAE.
The WSJ cited some defense officials, who indicated that Beijing may have been considering the establishment of a naval base in the UAE and sending military personnel to the country.
Even in the field of technology, China is getting closer to the UAE. Recently the Chinese tech giant Huawei launched a “one-stop-shop” for start-ups at the Dubai International Financial Centre (DIFC) Innovation Hub.
Huawei is also seeking to be the leading 5G provider in the region. It’s pertinent to mention that the Chinese tech firm was accused of corporate espionage by its western competitors.
Experts are of the opinion that growing ties between the UAE and China, including defense ties, could leak the highly confidential F-35 specifications to China, including its stealth technology, which many nations are trying to master.
If it's just politics, then it's fine. But if it's an actual concern, then France should also be concerned that the UAE or Qatar may end up selling Rafale secrets to the Chinese. It is of obvious concern to India.
A lot of things you that say will surprise the enemy during war may end up not coming as a surprise to the Chinese in case of a future Sino-India war.
But for @Tatvamasi it's not a concern to broadcast the secrets of the Frenchies it's such an insignificant country.
If that worry you, then do not ever buy anything developed or procured by the Israeli.
2004: BBC NEWS | Middle East | US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale
2013: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China
2017: How Israel used weapons and technology to become an ally of China
2021: BREAKING: Israeli Aerospace Engineers Earned Tens of Millions Illegally Selling Advanced Missiles to China
While there have been significant historical relations between the two, with the exception of a few systems, a lot of technologies we get from Israel also come with IP transfers and full ToT, to the point where we can make further changes ourselves. So we have some say on critical Israeli systems that we use. Plus the Israelis also bring in a lot of modifications before the system is sold elsewhere. For example, the MRSAM system we use and the one they export are quite different, inlcuding a different missile itself.
And I wouldn't equate Harop with the Rafale. Even if the Chinese have a thorough understanding of the Harop and even make duplicates of it, it doesn't affect India's ability to use the Harop ourselves. We will naturally be using different comm systems and other interface tech. But the Rafale, as a combat aircraft, will have features that shouldn't fall into enemy hands since they will be able to train and prepare for it. And what's worse would be the revelation of the Rafale's weaknesses that the enemy can exploit. These things should happen during war, not 10 years before a war even takes place. Harop will get countered on the very first day itself, even without previous exposure to it, the risk is not the same.
So whatever advantage we have with the Rafale today and perhaps over the next 5 years, could quickly erode once a ME country starts divulging secrets. Any potential exercises with the Rafale will also change things.
What is your logic here?
Let them share Rafale tech with the Chinese.
You keep underscoring my point. Rafale export depends on F-35 availability to that particular nation.
What? when did i say that?
If this is true then as IAF trains with Israelis and Singapore f-16s. Does that mean IAF can handle f-16 lot better than say jf-17?
After all their economy is surging up, the have better growth rate & better per capita income than India, so chances of a high performance aircraft like rafale may end up with BD Airforce is high.
Of course. When US and India agreed to hold exercises after the 123 Agreement, there was a lot of scratch eachother's backs moments with the F-16 and Flanker.
Also since the F-16 and JF-17 follow similar design philosophies, it's much easier for the IAF to use their F-16 experience to counter the JF-17 as well. As per the PAF, the JF-17 is about 80% as good as the F-16 in terms of performance.
And in the same breath Arjun MK2 is too expensive on a different thread.... quite hillarious on what we can and cannot afford.It's only $152,000M, we can afford it.
Naturellement. One is a game changer, the other is contemporary.
So IRST been under testing on f4.1 will be upgraded in f5 version. I do remember Rafale guys used to argue ( in a foreign forum, from our western neighborhood ) that Rafale's TV camera is so superior than the IRST and the bird doesnt need any such systems.
F5 for 2030 will feature a next generation IRST and a new targeting and recce pod.
Now they have plan fir IRST in f4.1 version & may get upgraded in later iteration of the aircraft.