Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

[randomradio]

Honestly going for a bunch Super-hornets and growlers wouldn't be bad. We can raise a fleet of naval tejas mk 2 based on the similar engines for coastal defence. F-35 B's will take a lot of time to come online. But I think the f-35 bought by india would be the most advanced. F-35I capabilities along with the meteor. If only...

While Rafale is the best option, the SH + Growler combo should still meet IN's minimum requirements. The weapons compatibility with the USN and RAAF also helps quite a bit.

If Rafale doesn't happen for the navy, the F-35B also won't. It faces the same issue. But if you're referring to using F-35Bs from LHDs the upcoming LHD tender should resolve any doubts, especially if Korea gets involved. Their CVX plan is pretty impressive, they are building three of those, so a lot of new technologies would be developed by them compared to France and Italy.

In case we do go for the F-35C, yeah, it's gonna need customisation by default. Any F-35 purchase for India would need customisation.

 

[randomradio]

Rafale should get the MRCA tender, while F-35 can pick up the Navy. It avoids most of the S-400 stickiness I guess?

It depends on if the US is willing to operate the F-35C alongside Russian aircraft. That's the real "stickiness" around.

With the Mig-29K and Ka-31 on the same carrier, it's obviously a way bigger issue than the S-400, in fact, it's an actual issue. It's gonna take us a minimum of 15-17 years to replace the Mig-29K, while the brand new Ka-31s are for the life of the carrier.

The same story with the IAF, any F-35As purchased will have to be operated alongside Mig-29s and MKIs for a long time.

 

[randomradio]

Not just the Indian Navy but your whole military is "overshadowed" by PLA. IAF stands no chance against PLAAF. Chicom air force is ahead of IAF in just about every category.

Used to be, for a very short while, ie 2017-2020, but then we got the Rafale, with the Meteor and took back the advantage.

 

[Innominate]

Used to be, for a very short while, ie 2017-2020, but then we got the Rafale, with the Meteor and took back the advantage.

36 french planes, bruh. And the french plane is not some advanced fighter either when compared to their J-20s armed with PL-15s. How many meteors does India have now? Still at a dozen? Come on Mang!

 

[randomradio]

36 french planes, bruh. And the french plane is not some advanced fighter either when compared to their J-20s armed with PL-15s. How many meteors does India have now? Still at a dozen? Come on Mang!

36 is more than enough for a border war. The USAF operates just 1 ASF squadron in an AEF. The J-20 is not all that it's cracked up to be yet. Plus a dedicated regiment is yet to begin operations along India. All they have right now is half a squadron, which is one-fourth of a regiment.

As for Meteor, the IAF asked for quick delivery of a dozen with the first batch of Rafales, so this is yet another reason why you are called a hillbilly. It doesn't even take common sense to figure out we have ordered enough Meteors for all 36 Rafales.

 

[suryakiran]

36 french planes, bruh. And the french plane is not some advanced fighter either when compared to their J-20s armed with PL-15s. How many meteors does India have now? Still at a dozen? Come on Mang!

If it were that simple, you would've seen the Chinese cross the border after Galwan. Deploying soldiers is one thing, making them fight in those altitudes...another. Remarkable that they have had 4 Generals in the same theatre over a period of one and half years. This should tell you about their 'expertise'.

They will get there in 5 years time, when they learn the logistics of managing over 3 years in those environments, equipment of that scale. Simple things like ensuring water does not freeze in the pipes for the soldiers. For now, they are busy showcasing hot food their soldiers get.

To a military which has been doing this for close to 40 years, its a joke not even worth replying to. As for the 5 years we have, we simply need to add numbers. Far easier than learning.

 

[zinswinsin]

I just pray for India's economic success.

Get that sweet sweet redirected VC funding gents lol.

 

[AbRaj]

I just pray for India's economic success.

Get that sweet sweet redirected VC funding gents lol.

Come on man. With America you can’t even use your equipment when required, even if you have bought them using your own money. What’s the use of such equipments , even if they are cheaper and/or more advanced than those of French or Russian origin.
You guys use arms sales as your foreign policy tool and demand obedience from the buyer. This is the reason countries like ours or UAE go for expensive French options as they don’t do that. Call them mafia or whatever but at least they have ethics and generally honour the deal.

 

[lcafanboy]

36 french planes, bruh. And the french plane is not some advanced fighter either when compared to their J-20s armed with PL-15s. How many meteors does India have now? Still at a dozen? Come on Mang!

Oh you mean that FAT FLYING PIG J-20 with underpowered AL31 engines with huge IR signature and huge RCS thanks to huge canards is better than Rafale which has a frontal RCS of a sparrow and very low IR signature due to dual channel cooling of M88 engines and PL-15 is better than Meteor and Mica/Mica NG combination? J-20 is anything but a 5th generation fighter...

Either you are joking or Butt hurt with the RAW DEAL from IAF choosing Rafale over obsolete US Teens or a retard...

During war all that matters is Tempo (number of sorties generated by a fighter plane). J-20 won't be able to match Rafales due to shitty Russian/Chinese Engines. In Avionics, EW suite, Rafale again is miles Ahead with one of the best AESA radar and spectra EW suite. Weapons choice, J-20 won't be able to match Indian Rafales which will have a choice of Russian, Indian, Israeli and of course French weapons all integrated into it. It's a formidable fighter meant for opening days of war with SEAD and DEAD Capabilities...

 

[AbRaj]

Oh you mean that FAT FLYING PIG J-20 with underpowered AL31 engines with huge IR signature and huge RCS thanks to huge canards is better than Rafale which has a frontal RCS of a sparrow and very low IR signature due to dual channel cooling of M88 engines and PL-15 is better than Meteor and Mica/Mica NG combination? J-20 is anything but a 5th generation fighter...

Either you are joking or Butt hurt with the RAW DEAL from IAF choosing Rafale over obsolete US Teens or a retard...

During war all that matters is Tempo (number of sorties generated by a fighter plane). J-20 won't be able to match Rafales due to shitty Russian/Chinese Engines. In Avionics, EW suite, Rafale again is miles Ahead with one of the best AESA radar and spectra EW suite. Weapons choice, J-20 won't be able to match Indian Rafales which will have a choice of Russian, Indian, Israeli and of course French weapons all integrated into it. It's a formidable fighter meant for opening days of war with SEAD and DEAD Capabilities...

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Oh you mean that FAT FLYING PIG J-20 with underpowered AL31 engines with huge IR signature and huge RCS thanks to huge canards is better than Rafale which has a frontal RCS of a sparrow and very low IR signature due to dual channel cooling of M88 engines and PL-15 is better than Meteor and Mica/Mica NG combination? J-20 is anything but a 5th generation fighter...

Either you are joking or Butt hurt with the RAW DEAL from IAF choosing Rafale over obsolete US Teens or a retard...

During war all that matters is Tempo (number of sorties generated by a fighter plane). J-20 won't be able to match Rafales due to shitty Russian/Chinese Engines. In Avionics, EW suite, Rafale again is miles Ahead with one of the best AESA radar and spectra EW suite. Weapons choice, J-20 won't be able to match Indian Rafales which will have a choice of Russian, Indian, Israeli and of course French weapons all integrated into it. It's a formidable fighter meant for opening days of war with SEAD and DEAD Capabilities...

J 20 will have the Benefit of Numbers , ie along with J 20
PLAAF will also have J 10 and J 11

 

[zinswinsin]

It's utterly nonsense to underestimate the J-20. Underpowered engines for sure(for now), but why would you underestimate Chinese mass production. Their electronics, sensors and avionics have all rapidly improved. Much past Russian level due to their functioning electronics industry lmao.

Come on man. With America you can’t even use your equipment when required, even if you have bought them using your own money. What’s the use of such equipments , even if they are cheaper and/or more advanced than those of French or Russian origin.
You guys use arms sales as your foreign policy tool and demand obedience from the buyer. This is the reason countries like ours or UAE go for expensive French options as they don’t do that. Call them mafia or whatever but at least they have ethics and generally honour the deal.

What does that have to do with venture capital funding or Indian economic success lol.

 

[AbRaj]

It's utterly nonsense to underestimate the J-20.

Perhaps you are not familiar with the poster.

What does that have to do with venture capital funding or Indian economic success lol.

I thought you were mocking India buying expensive Rafale rather than US Jets.

 

[zinswinsin]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the poster.

I thought you were mocking India buying expensive Rafale rather than US Jets.

Nah I just want India to catch up economically so Asia is a lot safer.

French or American jets doesn't really effect that. Same difference really I doubt it will be a shooting war. Tech war and economic war for sure.

 

[Lolwa]

It's utterly nonsense to underestimate the J-20. Underpowered engines for sure(for now), but why would you underestimate Chinese mass production. Their electronics, sensors and avionics have all rapidly improved. Much past Russian level due to their functioning electronics industry lmao.



What does that have to do with venture capital funding or Indian economic success lol.

We don't know about their sensor fusion but that's most likely not to be that impressive. Their net centric warfare capabilities seem non-existent in the air. Their ew is questionable. The j-20 is just a standard stealthified flanker with an aesa and eots. The thing can be taken out far more easily than the f-35 or super hornet.

 

[randomradio]

Come on man. With America you can’t even use your equipment when required, even if you have bought them using your own money. What’s the use of such equipments , even if they are cheaper and/or more advanced than those of French or Russian origin.
You guys use arms sales as your foreign policy tool and demand obedience from the buyer. This is the reason countries like ours or UAE go for expensive French options as they don’t do that. Call them mafia or whatever but at least they have ethics and generally honour the deal.

Tender deals don't have such problems. We make it a requirement that the US can't interfere in the working of the system. And they can't sanction stuff that's already on contract either.

 

[AbRaj]

Tender deals don't have such problems. We make it a requirement that the US can't interfere in the working of the system. And they can't sanction stuff that's already on contract either.

But they prefer GTG deals. And majority of our arms purchase from US is GTG anyway.

 

[randomradio]

It's utterly nonsense to underestimate the J-20. Underpowered engines for sure(for now), but why would you underestimate Chinese mass production. Their electronics, sensors and avionics have all rapidly improved. Much past Russian level due to their functioning electronics industry lmao.

True. But not within the timeframe you are expecting though.

No clue about electronics, but the Russians are ahead of the Chinese in terms of airframe and engine, and they expect their definitive version with a new engine to become operationally available only in 2025. The new Chinese engine that will help it surpass the Rafale is not yet flying today. It's expected to happen by 2023 or so, and then a few more years before it enters production. Plus a year or two before it enters service alongside the Indian border, as long as it succeeds. Whatever the case, it's expected to happen only after Russia's Su-57.

 

[Hydra]

It's utterly nonsense to underestimate the J-20. Underpowered engines for sure(for now), but why would you underestimate Chinese mass production. Their electronics, sensors and avionics have all rapidly improved. Much past Russian level due to their functioning electronics industry lmao.



What does that have to do with venture capital funding or Indian economic success lol.

People should know this bare basic minimum fact.
Japanese admiral were aware about the outcome even befor they launching Pearl harbour attack. The serving Yamato knows the industrial base of Yankees, and he feared a defeat in the hands of yankees in a long term war. It turned out to be true also.

We had habit if assuming thing which are far from reality. We even assumed Chinese will vacate during winter, they still holding the position .

 

[randomradio]

We don't know about their sensor fusion but that's most likely not to be that impressive. Their net centric warfare capabilities seem non-existent in the air. Their ew is questionable.

Not necessarily. Just 'cause we don't know doesn't mean we should dismiss them.

The j-20 is just a standard stealthified flanker with an aesa and eots. The thing can be taken out far more easily than the f-35 or super hornet.

While it's not at the level of the Su-57 in terms of airframe or engine design, the J-20 has been designed to surpass the F-22.

But they prefer GTG deals. And majority of our arms purchase from US is GTG anyway.

With the exception of P-8I and Reaper, we are buying offensive systems through tenders, like the Apache. It's also why the IN preferred to go for the F-35 through the tender route.