Not really, I can only stick to the currently available informations, that's why I said if. More info's =>
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
Not really, I can only stick to the currently available informations, that's why I said if. More info's =>
Not interested in the political side of it, only in the defence related side, if there is one.
It's a repitition of what you've posted earlier except its more elaborate . Verma has moved the SC . We haven't heard the last on this issue. The SC will hear the case & we'd get to know Verma's side of the story.
The CBI can take suo moto action in cases under the PCA. But , Where's the case? And do you really believe any CBI chief is so independent as to proceed against his political masters who have actually appointed him in the first place. Seems more true of Western democracies than feudal representative democracies like India.
Prima facie, it seems that a certain clash of interests and egos of both Verma & Asthana prompted whatever we've seen unfold in the past week leading to both being sacked. From what can be gleaned, Asthana had a bit of a past but was a Modi hatchet man brought in to dig out dirt in cases involving the Congress.
At some point, he got into Verma's crosshair for reasons unknown, allegedly stumbling upon Verma's deals with Sterling Biocon, upon which Verma who himself has a past decided to pre empt Asthana and brought up Asthana's links with Sterling Biocon, effectively publicising them by moving court.
There could be other angles to this case too or it 's perhaps some other case altogether ( Moin Qureishi's case) which triggered this mutual antagonism. Else one doesn't see such desperate moves by the top bosses of the premier most investigative agency of India, which on first glance seems foolhardy.
Either way it doesn't behove well for a strongman like Modi casting him in poor light apart from highlighting his lack of control over the entire situation and it's more than a stinging slap across the face of our desi James Bond - Doval.
The earlier reports only suggested an investigation, now we have details =>
"Rafale deal irregularities: the verification process was on at CBI of the complaint by Shourie, Sinha and Bhushan, and “a decision was to be taken”. The next step would have to be ask MoD for details before filing a PE."
The more info's we get, the close we get to proper conclusions on the issue. We know now, that there was a valid investigation and why. Will be interesting to see if that investigation will be followed now, after the removal.
P.S.
PB, Shourie & Sinha have moved the SC, but there's been no direction by the SC to the CBI on the verification process, based on the trio's plaint.If there's any, I'd like a second and third opinion on that. Apart from the IE, other MSM have only highlighted the issue parroting RG minus any details.
Last edited:
If true, it would be another major downer for Rafale, after Malaysia scrapping the tender and Belgium not considering it. Apart of the Indian tenders, that leaves only the Finnish tender if I'm not wrong.
Which is what am trying to say. The (non-existent) defence side is the effect of a political issue and will die down pretty quickly. And as expected, its out of the news today.
The defence side is already there, because we know now that there was an investigation into Rafale. What we don't know is, why the officer was moved, defence or political reasons.
Frankly it is getting hilarious. Despite contradictory documents they still claim DA HAD to chose Ambani. Truth is DA wanted a financial and local partner, near center of india, with possible facilities near an airport, knowing local industrial tissue etc. THEY have the industrial expertise and as far as MMRCA was off, HAL wasn't interested. They absolutely do not care about the industrial knowledge of the sector of their partner. they do want to start from scratch a clean sheet. Presently several indian workers are being taught in Merignac, and they will probaably open a technical institute in India. I thought those attempts were over... They are endangering IAF modernization process, whatever plane tbh.
Oh btw, i can confirm, from a vice president level private info, that first indian made parts will be produced by the end of the year.
And main beneficiary of offsets is DRDO (around 1 third)
Oh btw, i can confirm, from a vice president level private info, that first indian made parts will be produced by the end of the year.
And main beneficiary of offsets is DRDO (around 1 third)
Last edited:
@Milspec
There you go. Straight from the horse's mouth. The DRAL deal was simply a continuation of what they had done with Mukesh.
Is a single engine F35 less costlier than a dual engine Mig29 ? (even if Mig 29 isn't among the competitors).
The sole nice solution is to give all the missions to fullfill, the budget for purchase and the annual budget for support. And after that the best will naturally emerge.
One answer may be 40 x Gripen E, another for the same missions may be 25 x EF...
And that does not make sense to me, but that might be my limitation. Bobby Deol should not be cast in a film because Sunny Deol was selected in auditions. RIL and ADAG are two distinct entities, there is a huge difference in corporate governance of the two organisations, financials are distinct, capabilities are different.
If feasibility analysis was limited to fathers name, mothers name , last name then sure both are interchangeable. Other than that I am not sure that works.
As far as ADAG, my views are quite clear, once a thief always a thief. If different, let a standing committee investigate without hindrance to ensuing project but our cabinet formed of Television spokespersons and mindless yesmen/women neither have the intellect nor the wherewithal to exonerate themselves respectfully.
Likely because Dassault is calling the shots, so switching brothers didn't matter as long as their offer was the same. In this case, the script is important, not the director or actor.
So let there be a JPC, and settle it once and for all. simple enough. Why shy away from it.
As I said, facts aren't part of the debate.
Remember how you also got suckered into believing Reliance is getting the entire 30,000Cr offsets contract, when they are actually getting only a piddly 850Cr contract, alongside dozens of other companies instead? And Reliance has to shell out 51% of that 850Cr after that.
On what basis should there be a JPC? You want to start JPC because Reliance is getting a 850 Cr contract in a total deal worth 59000 Cr?
If JPCs are started based purely on allegations, then nothing will ever happen.
Dassault has also openly clarified that they chose Reliance for Falcon. Any foreign company can tie up with any Indian company. Why should that right be taken away only in this case? The Falcon has nothing to do with Rafale anyway.
Because motabhai & chottabhai are greasing the wheels of the BJP.. No personal corruption here, unlike the Congress ( Mukesh Ambani - Congress to apni hi dukaan hain - courtesy Radia tapes). But yes, RIL Was initialy chosen by DA cos of their clout. Further, in this partnership DA gets to dictate terms. Which means there'd be no ToT (and thank God for it & for the offsets) but plain old HAL style screwdriver role as in the golden old days of Soviet partnership. Which in turn means that Ambani continues to be the trader and not the technocrat MII seeks.
At some point fraternal ties got the better of business and chota bhai came in for mota bhai. I wonder why are you so surprised. After all, this is India.
Last edited:
yes. And Sancho, add Canada and Morocco for the replaement of their refurbished Mirage F1
It does make sense from Dassaults POV, to choose a partner that they have chosen before for the same requirement (offset work). It's questionable though, that Dassault makes such poor business decisions, by teaming up with a company, that has a poor reputation and big financial problems. But poor decision making is not against the rules.
The problem however is not why Reliance was chosen, but if the PM in Paris 2015, insisted on Reliance, because that would be preferring a specific Indian company and therefore cronyism!
Since Dassaults CEO Trappier stated, that he wasn't part of talks in Paris and was informed of the deal only after things were done by the government's, his / Dassault's statements of choosing Reliance later, are meaningless.
Only people who were at the talks, can confirm or deny, what was going on and so far, the only official info we have on that is, what president Hollande stated.
Yes, if you look at fuel consumption and maintenance costs on the engines only. What makes F35 so costly to operate as a whole, is the stealth part.
It also can be cheaper to procure, because higher numbers of engines, increase the unit cost. But here again, it's the advanced coatings, materials and techs, that will add up costs for F35.
Bottom line is, "if" (because I couldn't find an alternative source for that news) Switzerland decidedes to limit the tender to single engine fighters for cost reason, the fight might be more between Gripen E and F16 B70, unless they ignore the operational costs of the F35 too.[/QUOTE]