Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

China has not even announced the empty weight of the J10C.
I can only find a blurry picture of the J10C radar
We can only find some evidence from some papers published by Chengfei Company
Maybe Pakistan will release technical details

China and Pakistan won't release such information. Even India releases limited information. The West is much more transparent.

Where is the Rafale's antenna?
Maybe we can speculate from the Rafale fighter

Canards edge and right above the engine. Covers 360 deg.

The Indian Rafale has a new antenna below the engine. Could be low band.
 
I looked through some information last night and found that I may have misunderstood active stealth
The Chinese and foreign names of this should be called radar active cancellation technology
The principle is basically the same as what you said. Actively transmit radar waves and use waveform superposition to deceive the opponent's radar. J-10C also has
the antenna at the root of the canard.(spec)
At the same time, this antenna can block the gap between the canard and the body
, to achieve better shape stealth
There is a paper describing this cancellation technique, on the J10C,
Able to reduce 19.2DB
View attachment 22796
So a Chinese "SPECTRA like" is on duty?
 
So a Chinese "SPECTRA like" is on duty?
My answer is maybe
There are papers showing that China's new generation of fighter jets use this active radar cancellation technology
At the same time, this antenna can also be found on the J10C
At the same time, this paper shows that, and under ideal conditions, a reduction of 19.2db is possible
As for China's official announcement whether to use
no
After all, China has not announced that the J10C uses AESA
 
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My answer is maybe
There are papers showing that China's new generation of fighter jets use this active radar cancellation technology
At the same time, this antenna can also be found on the J10C
At the same time, this paper shows that, and under ideal conditions, a reduction of 19.2db is possible
As for China's official announcement whether to use
no
After all, China has not announced that the J10C uses AESA
It's not new. But some failed on active cancellation, including some US big ones. So true, not true?
 
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The opposite. GoI is pushing for small orders, they even pushed for a 90 jet MII, although they backed down on their own later on. The IAF wants a tender, because tenders are educational.

Now that situation with Russia vs Ukraine,
India putting hold on US drones,
Talks about how France is reliable supplier irrespective of situations..
Rafale M should be the winner right?
 
Now that situation with Russia vs Ukraine,
India putting hold on US drones,
Talks about how France is reliable supplier irrespective of situations..
Rafale M should be the winner right?
On the contrary expect hard bargaining. Perhaps that's why the Predator order wasn't confirmed just so US doesn't go ahead with CAATSA. The US will demand it's pound of flesh . If not Hornets expect more orders of
P-8i or some other big ticket items apart from the Predators.
 
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On the contrary expect hard bargaining. Perhaps that's why the Predator order wasn't confirmed just so US doesn't go ahead with CAATSA. The US will demand it's pound of flesh . If not Hornets expect more orders of
P-8i or some other big ticket items apart from the Predators.

Some say now it's impossible to waive caatsa for us. Seems like F18 is mainly political deal for protection all around.
Incase we need to give orders for Us weapons hope it's advanced tech one.

SU 30 mki upgrade deal and many other deals will be in limbo..

S400 ongoing deal , not sure what to expect after only part of first tranche received.

I think it's safe to bet on French weapons for now.

@Falcon

Given the current geo politics, which one u think has more chance, F18 Or Rafale M?

How Indo Russian deals go?

How ll the Indo US deals go?
 
Now that situation with Russia vs Ukraine,
India putting hold on US drones,
Talks about how France is reliable supplier irrespective of situations..
Rafale M should be the winner right?
Good that we stop predator, it is as expensive as Rafale but bound to get shot down if you used it against decent enemy.
 
Some say now it's impossible to waive caatsa for us. Seems like F18 is mainly political deal for protection all around.
Incase we need to give orders for Us weapons hope it's advanced tech one.

SU 30 mki upgrade deal and many other deals will be in limbo..

S400 ongoing deal , not sure what to expect after only part of first tranche received.

I think it's safe to bet on French weapons for now.

@Falcon

Given the current geo politics, which one u think has more chance, F18 Or Rafale M?

How Indo Russian deals go?

How ll the Indo US deals go?
The US would like to make a point to India as well as show the world it doesn't like dissent against its it's leadership or its policies . So , something would have to be done just to show the world . In other words action for the sake of effects not as a punitive measure.

Do remember that the more the stand off on the LAC is prolonged the more time it buys Taiwan. US would like nothing more than a diversionary war between China & India , hopefully one in which China is defeated or China wins a pyrrhic victory. To that extent the US would gladly provide India whatever assistance India needs & leeway too .

The US certainly is loathe to be dragged into a war with China over Taiwan. I personally have my doubts if it would actually wage war with China over this issue irrespective of what Taiwan or Japan feels & India is their best bet as of now to tie down China & thwart their designs on Taiwan.
 
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Now that situation with Russia vs Ukraine,
India putting hold on US drones,
Talks about how France is reliable supplier irrespective of situations..
Rafale M should be the winner right?

Drones:
We have been operating their drones for quite some time through a lease, it doesn't look like the govt is happy with the price for the capability being offered. Let's see whether there's room for negotiations. A better option is to just lease some for now and buy time for indigenous solutions. We will eventually operate 200+ such drones.

Navy fighter:
France is reliable by default, but they are more money minded. But the US is even more reliable when it benefits them. A strong IN benefits them, so they will do their best to give us the technologies necessary to move up the value chain at sea. Otoh, they would like to see a weaker IA and IAF because that will increase our reliance on them, especially so if Ladakh falls to the Chinese. So we need to be careful how we deal with the US, but, at least for now, the IN benefits a lot. Politically, both are excellent suppliers.

As for the capability of the jets themselves, it's difficult to say. The IN doesn't require most of the back breaking capabilities of the Rafale like the IAF does. The same with avionics, the IN finds the SH meets their requirements, so the Rafale's more capable avionics may not necessarily entice them, especially so if it comes with a significant cost difference. So, even if the Rafale is the better jet, the IN may end up going for "just right" instead of exceptional. The SH is also less of a hassle due to elevator constraints.

There are a few advantages for the SH that the Rafale cannot match.
One, interoperability when it comes to supply chain, logistics and force coordination with the USN.
Two, access to their experience in carrier construction and operation.
Three, the two-seat version can be operated from carriers. It's needed for drone operations.
Four, potential access to upcoming drones that can be operated alongside the SH.
Five, engine commonality with TEDBF. And with the IAF's LCA and AMCA Mk1.

War at sea actually requires other capabilities rather than the tech specs of jets. Like the ability to find and identify targets, so you can fire long range AShMs at them. Point one is a massive advantage here.

Points three and four could actually become quite important in just 5 years. So, while fighters stay at long range, drones can get close and personal with the enemy.

Both jets are politically safe choices, but I just think the SH has the advantage.
 
Some say now it's impossible to waive caatsa for us. Seems like F18 is mainly political deal for protection all around.
Incase we need to give orders for Us weapons hope it's advanced tech one.

CAATSA isn't for India. It's for the future import scrubs, countries that will be importing stuff even in 2120.

SU 30 mki upgrade deal and many other deals will be in limbo..

No, CAATSA doesn't affect existing inventory. We can sign all the upgrade deals we want. MKI, Mi-26, Kilo, Talwar, IL-76/78, Mi-17 etc. We can also import more of our existing inventory, like we are going ahead with a new batch of 10 Ka-31s. CAATSA also doesn't affect deals the US has already signed. So we can import all the F404/414 and LM2500 engines we want.

S400 ongoing deal , not sure what to expect after only part of first tranche received.

The first regiment has been delivered, it will become operational in April. There is minor CAATSA threat here, but I don't think it will be a problem. Since the S-400 agreement predates CAATSA, a loophole is already available. Plus CAATSA isn't automatic, it's a choice.
 
The opposite. GoI is pushing for small orders, they even pushed for a 90 jet MII, although they backed down on their own later on. The IAF wants a tender, because tenders are educational.
Explain me this, IAF is pursuing for follow on orders for AWACS from israel the day we start receiving the phalcon from israel, its potential & lack of adequate numbers of awacs seen feb 27 too. Where is the follow on orders? Dont tell me the excuses like DRDO is making, designing etc.

The same government had purchased & operationalized the Boeing 777 based VVIP aircraft for pm & president, that too in ridiculously short span of time.

Now tell me which is more important? AWACS, which IAF may use on daily basis or an aircraft which comes in to uses only when PM made an oversees visit?
 
Explain me this, IAF is pursuing for follow on orders for AWACS from israel the day we start receiving the phalcon from israel, its potential & lack of adequate numbers of awacs seen feb 27 too. Where is the follow on orders? Dont tell me the excuses like DRDO is making, designing etc.

Russia has created problems due to the unavailability of spare IL-76 airframes. The available airframes are now ancient as well, with the last brand new one coming out only in 1995.

We may need to look at A-100 as the new platform now.

The same government had purchased & operationalized the Boeing 777 based VVIP aircraft for pm & president, that too in ridiculously short span of time.

It's still in production.

Now tell me which is more important? AWACS, which IAF may use on daily basis or an aircraft which comes in to uses only when PM made an oversees visit?

The PM's plane. It's a pretty important plane.

It can also be used during war for C&C.
 
Russia has created problems due to the unavailability of spare IL-76 airframes. The available airframes are now ancient as well, with the last brand new one coming out only in 1995.

We may need to look at A-100 as the new platform now.



It's still in production.



The PM's plane. It's a pretty important plane.

It can also be used during war for C&C.
Platform has little importance in awacs, uts the radar, workstations &algorithms makes the difference. We could have easily shift to Airbus 330 based awacs, that will be having better availability too.
 
The PM's plane. It's a pretty important plane.

It can also be used during war for C&C.
Last 75 years pm's flight was regular passenger aircraft, no mishap has happened so far. Also pm can be replaced (during peace time ), territory loss, loss of war cannot be accepted.
C&C is not the primary function of that aircraft, its a ferry plane for VVIP.