Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Rajput Lion said:
Rafale with Meteor is a deterrent and force multiplier in itself. It was a mistake that we didn't order more. So, we must order both Rafale and Scorpène/Kalvari in big numbers this time around.
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Spilt milk. MRFA or bust.

There are two options for submarines, either a repeat of the Scorpene order or a stopgap deal for Super Scorpenes which will allow the IN to replace P-75I with an indigenous program. But something needs to happen this year, either the P-75I needs to begin or a MoU for the Super Scorpene needs to be signed.

Rajput Lion said:
There are also rumours about France asking India to join FCAS! Hoping for some positive news on this front too as we can't lag behind the Chinese in 6th gen fighter program.
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Both France and UK want us involved in their programs, but we don't have the finances for it. They need to finish development and then offer it to us, but we are unlikely to compete with the Chinese in 6th gen. After AMCA, we will have to skip straight to 7th or 8th or whatever gen is current for the time.
 
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randomradio said:
Spilt milk. MRFA or bust.

There are two options for submarines, either a repeat of the Scorpene order or a stopgap deal for Super Scorpenes which will allow the IN to replace P-75I with an indigenous program. But something needs to happen this year, either the P-75I needs to begin or a MoU for the Super Scorpene needs to be signed.



Both France and UK want us involved in their programs, but we don't have the finances for it. They need to finish development and then offer it to us, but we are unlikely to compete with the Chinese in 6th gen. After AMCA, we will have to skip straight to 7th or 8th or whatever gen is current for the time.
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My idea was to accelerate the development of the AMCA with the help of Dassault and to make it also the demonstrator of the SCAF, and then to develop the SCAF together on this basis, with the equality of contributions not being calculated with the price but in kind at the beginning of the project. But for this to happen, cooperation with Germany would have to fail.
 
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Parthu said:
This article is speaking with regard to the upcoming tile radars around the airframe, not SPECTRA
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Is the tile antenna only now being used in France?China started use til antenna 3rd generation AESA in 2009
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Rajput Lion said:
These are normal nose mounted AESA radars, tile mounted antennas are much slimmer and fused in skin of the aircraft. Once again you've no idea about what you're preaching.
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I'm just amazed that the French are only now using
Rajput Lion said:
These are normal nose mounted AESA radars, tile mounted antennas are much slimmer and fused in skin of the aircraft. Once again you've no idea about what you're preaching.
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You can translate it yourself with the translation software, and you'll know what's on my picture
Rajput Lion said:
These are normal nose mounted AESA radars, tile mounted antennas are much slimmer and fused in skin of the aircraft. Once again you've no idea about what you're preaching.
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You can translate it yourself with the translation software, and you'll know what's on my picture
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
My idea was to accelerate the development of the AMCA with the help of Dassault and to make it also the demonstrator of the SCAF, and then to develop the SCAF together on this basis, with the equality of contributions not being calculated with the price but in kind at the beginning of the project. But for this to happen, cooperation with Germany would have to fail.
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The objective of AMCA is strategic independence. Once it begins, no one will be able to touch it, even if it takes 30 years like LCA.

If India does take a look at SCAF, it will not be in competition with AMCA. SCAF has a lot of different objectives well above AMCA and both jets are expected in very different timelines, 2035 vs 2045. AMCA will be to SCAF what HSTDV is to Brahmos 2. One assures the forces of timely development of capabilities and the other helps develop the industry.

But the IAF's plan seems to be set in stone for now. Rafales first, then AMCA followed by an AMCA successor to replace the MKI. Will SCAF become the AMCA successor? I highly doubt that. It will diminish the role of the Indian industry and push the IAF back by decades in their quest for self-sufficiency. If there's any potential for a different aircraft, I can't see anything else beyond a stopgap measure involving 3 squadrons of Su-57 or NGAD that can bridge the gap between Rafale and the AMCA successor. We will know for sure after MRFA is signed, or at least after we spot the J-XX.

But it's possible for SCAF to become a TEDBF successor for the IN. With the IN interested in operating 6 carriers someday, they need a CATOBAR jet available after 2045. TEDBF is likely to see delays, which could push ADA out of contention for a CATOBAR jet and that's where a SCAF Marine could fit in. 4 new large or supercarriers between 2045 and 2060 would mean at least 200 SCAF Ms. Or the IN could accept 50 jets for the first flattop or 2 and wait for ADA to develop a TEDBF successor.
 
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LX1111 said:
The text I circled in red clearly says tile antenna, this is the third generation AESA in 2009
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You seem to accept this comment and to reject the one from Thales when this last is much more integrated than the one you show.
In a tile antenna all the electronics behind is integrated. It is absolutly not the case in the one you show us.
 
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LX1111 said:
The text I circled in red clearly says tile antenna, this is the third generation AESA in 2009View attachment 27624
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In terms of research and prototypes, everybody important enough has this tech. So the question is where it is being used today.

Right now, nobody in the West is using this tech in radars.

As for the J-20, unless it's using GaN, a tile topology in the main radar will not provide it with a tactical advantage versus the F-22. If both are using GaAs, system design like cooling, processing and software quality will become more important. I'd give the benefit to the J-20 though, it's more modern and should carry a more advanced antenna design.

The Rafale's radar became operational in 2012. J-20 became operational and usable only recently. So the Rafale's radar is from a different generation that was developed in the 1990s.

Personally I think Chinese AESA radars on both the Flankers and J-20 are superior to any radar in the West even with GaAs. Only APG-82 should be competitive with Chinese Flanker radars today, but it's not fully operational yet. APG-77 is a bit old and APG-81 has some problems. APG-83 is also competitive but it's on the F-16. The new APG-79 is also definitely competitive, but the SH isn't suitable for air superiority.

It should take the USAF a few years to catch up. The F-22's radar needs to be replaced, the F-15EX needs more numbers, the F-35 needs more computer processing, perhaps fix some heating issues too. Until then, PLAAF has the advantage.
 
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Don't think any other nation can match US in AESA radar tech as of now. Heck! They have already fielded GaN based AESA radar on Marine Hornets. Doubt whether Chinese can match this!!
 
Herciv said:
In a tile antenna all the electronics behind is integrated. It is absolutly not the case in the one you show us
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Tile antennas are not integrated all electronic devices
The main difference between them
The brick antenna is placed vertically. The advantage of this structure is that the minimum end face is perpendicular to the antenna, and more modules can be integrated with the same area. However, the disadvantage is that it is thick and poor heat dissipation, which is not suitable for the placement of high-power modules.

Tile placement, T/R components are laid flat，light and thin installation small volume, light weight, unit area heat dissipation is stronger, more in line with the future high-performance module placement, but the disadvantage is very high requirements for packaging process. The new generation of gallium nitride TR module generally adopts tile type.
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randomradio said:
In terms of research and prototypes, everybody important enough has this tech. So the question is where it is being used today.

Right now, nobody in the West is using this tech in radars
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The first use of tile antennas was the APG81 radar, which the French are only using now because their technology is behind the US and China
 
randomradio said:
Personally I think Chinese AESA radars on both the Flankers and J-20 are superior to any radar in the West even with GaAs. Only APG-82 should be competitive with Chinese Flanker radars today, but it's not fully operational yet. APG-77 is a bit old and APG-81 has some problems. APG-83 is also competitive but it's on the F-16. The new APG-79 is also definitely competitive, but the SH isn't suitable for air superiority
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It is an exaggeration to say that the Chinese have surpassed the Western countries. We are in the same position as the West
GaN technology has been widely used in various countries, such as a TR module board(we call it DAM), which was published in a paper in 2017.
This X-band GaN miniaturized DAM assembly can accommodate up to 4 T/ R, reducing size by 65% at similar transmission power
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The latest Japanese technology announced in 2021 shows that each TR module board integrates 16 TR modules
This advanced technology will be applied to the future Japanese F-X fighter.
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Rajput Lion said:
Don't think any other nation can match US in AESA radar tech as of now. Heck! They have already fielded GaN based AESA radar on Marine Hornets. Doubt whether Chinese can match this!!
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America's most advanced is MIDAS

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It should be the most advanced in the world, much ahead of China and other countries
 
Rajput Lion said:
Don't think any other nation can match US in AESA radar tech as of now. Heck! They have already fielded GaN based AESA radar on Marine Hornets. Doubt whether Chinese can match this!!
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The Chinese have the lead currently. Although the US seemingly has better tech, it's yet to be put into use.

Like, the SABR and RACR antennas are only on the APG-79, 82 (RACR) and 83 (SABR). APG-77 and 81 are still using older tech.

Chinese Flanker AESA radars have at least 2.5 times higher detection range than the MKI's Bars. I believe a CCTV outlet said the J-11B's new radar can manage 450Km against a 1m2 target. This is way more than what's possible on the F-22 as well. The Irbis-E probably does 280Km or so and the APG-77 is inferior to the Irbis-E, possibly 250Km or so. Bars is probably at 160-180Km or so.
 
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